Moving abroad with children

[joliejoleen]

Hello, I wonder if someone could give me some advice on this, please.

I have been offered a job abroad and want to move with my children. My ex has said NO without giving a reason.

Background information on my ex in case it's relevant:
The children live with me 100% of the time. My ex sees them once or twice a month for an average of 4 hours. He also doesn't pay child maintenance. In January he told the children he was moving to the other side of the world, which then turned out to be a lie. He just wanted to get a reaction out of me and for me to say: please don't go, let's get back together. He's been emotionally abusive and at one point I had to tell him I'd go to the police if he continued sending me the messages he was sending (just because I wouldn't get back with him).

The job would come with two free school places for my children and free accommodation. It would be an amazing opportunity for them and would improve the quality of their lives massively. I explained all of this to my ex. I also told him that I would pay for his flights and accommodation to come visit the children. Whenever he wanted. We'd also travel back to the UK to visit him. He'd probably see them more than he's seeing them now. The children really want to go and are excited about the move and all the things they'd be able to do.

The reason for the move? To improve the quality of our lives. Right now we're living in a tiny flat in London and I sleep on a sofa bed in the living room/kitchen. My eldest has the big bedroom and my youngest has the box room. I can't afford to rent anything bigger on my salary. Plus the cost of life is rapidly increasing and I can barely make ends meet every month.

Finally, I told my ex that if he stops us from going abroad then we'll have to move out of London anyway because I just can't afford life here anymore. This means that he'd have to travel further to see them and probably see them even less. His answer to that was: that's OK. This makes me think that the only reason why he's stopping us is out of spite.

Could someone please give me some advice on what legal recourse I have? If this goes to court, how likely is the court to side with my ex? How long will it take and what could the potential cost be?

Thank you very, very much!

How old are the kids, what do they want to do ?

See a solicitor for advice as to how you can make this wonderful opportunity for you all happen. Think positive - you WILL make it happen, you just need the right advice.

Go to court for a specific issue order, don't let him deprive the children of this amazing opportunity for a new, better life.

The children are almost 7 and 14. They want to go.

Thank you for you replies so far. Any idea how long the whole process would take? I've only just got the job and they want me to start in August.
I genuinely never thought he'd do this, I'm still in shock. Especially as I've offered to fly him there and pay for the hotel whenever and however many times he wants. I just want a better life for my children and if I have to spend 800 pounds every month to fly him in and house him, I'll happily do it. As long as my children get to have all the opportunities that come with this job.

You need to go to court and what your children want matters quite a bit, especially at those ages when they can articulate it for themselves. My memory could be off, but I think the age is 16 for the child’s wish to override the disagreeing parent. You’d have to check with the lawyer. Unfortunately and to the detriment of many women, the “best for children” as seen by the courts is for the father to have continuing and ongoing access. It can very very difficult to move children abroad without explicit agreement of the other parent.

It is highly unlikely it will happen before august, especially if he fights it.

I understand. Thank you. It's such a shame as the children really want to go and it's so frustrating because he rarely sees them but can stop them from doing what they want. Anyway, thank you for your advice.

This is awful OP.

Why doesn't he pay maintenance? I'd hit him immediately in the pocket and make a claim via CMS.

You're financially crippled and hes calling the shots? No way can that continue.

Get yourself a lawyer.

Also, the court does not “side with your ex,” they do what is in the best interest of the children. You will need to prove this move will be in the best interest for them (which it sounds like you can). But, if he says “no, I want them close” he doesn’t really even need to give reason, the courts likely won’t allow it. You need to find a lawyer who specialises in this.

Its very difficult to do if the other parent opposes it. There are many, many expat women who want to move back to their home countries (where they are citizens and often their children are too) but they are stuck in the U.K. because the other parent says no.

This could be made easier if he in not on their birth certificates.

I know. He can't keep a job and never has money so he doesn't pay. And I've been understanding and haven't pressured him.

I did this 20 years ago, some things may have changed but I think not many.

Firstly, does their father have parental responsibility?

If he does not, check the laws of the country you are going to as they may still insist on his permission.

Secondly, you are better to get the ball rolling and go to court yourself rather than wait for him to torpedo it last minute.

The way it worked back then was that the court appointed a worker to talk to the kids and get their views.

They will write a report for the court and you will get a date for family court. If he is still objecting you will likely need a solicitor and barrister.

I made a clear and logical case for our improvement in lifestyle and prospects and for what I would do to ensure my ex was able to maintain a relationship with his child. I had a health report from a doctor about the SAD I had very severely at the time explaining that a sunny climate would be better for my health. I said I would forego the maintenance so he could use it for flights. I showed that over a year he would see DC the same number of days as before.

Ex came with a chip on his shoulder and said he wouldn't mind X country but didn't want his DC moving to Y country, with uneducated and anecdotal facts about the country we were moving to. The judge agreed that there was no reasonable reason to stop me, I got the specific issue order and we were on a flight soon after.

From deciding to move to flying took about 6 quite stressful months. Obviously the courts have more of a backlog at the moment.
I can't remember if I got any legal aid or if because it was family court there wasn't much to pay, but I remember I had to pay something, maybe a few hundred?

Make your application to Court early next week & get the ball rolling. Set out what you are asking for & why. Show that you've given it a lot of thought, explain the reason why you want to move, the positives for the children, & how you would promote the children's relationship with him if you move. Set out the lack of contact he currently chooses to have. Show the judge there are genuine, carefully considered reasons behind the proposed move. Explain when you would start the job & ask the court to consider listing an early hearing due to the short notice & lack of time available. Different courts move at different places so no idea if it'll be dealt with in time, but your best option is to file the application on Monday rather than delaying it at all. Good luck!

My friend did this. He agreed they could go on the understating she wouldn’t claim child support.

My be with trying the same thing. ‘If you’re so bothered about your kids you can pay for them or I can go abroad and earn more so you don’t have to’.

Don't delay. Get your C100 application in first thing on Monday morning for a specific issues order for leave to remove permanently from the jurisdiction. Ask for an urgent hearing on the basis that your job offer is for August. You should get a hearing quickly.

Once your application is in, put together a dossier of information on the accommodation, the school places, the lifestyle, the benefits to the children, the children's opinions on moving, and most importantly a complete rundown of how you plan to maintain the relationship between the children and their father once you move. See if you can get a lawyer from that country to provide a letter stating what the laws are in that country for contact, and whether or not any order made here will be endorsed there (you may be asked by the English courts to get a mirror order).

If you are going to an EU country, maintaining contact won't be difficult since the father barely spends time with them anyway, so you can make the offer you have (I'd suggest alternate months you will pay, and the other months he can pay - no point in being too generous), or that you will fly the kids to him once every other month for a weekend.

Given he sees the kids so little already, and if that has been the status quo for a long period of time, you may have a much easier job of persuading a judge than usual.

If you were a client, based on the admittedly limited information you have posted here, I'd say you have a better than 50% chance of success.

Thank you so much for this. How likely is it that I will get an urgent hearing? I can see that I can apply online. Is it better to go down to court and deal with it face to face or apply online?

You should get a hearing quickly as the offer is for August...though it is doubtful, if the father continues to object, that you will get permission from the court in time for leaving by August. But you won't know that until you apply and are before the judge with your evidence.

It shouldn't make a difference whether you apply online or via paper - but I'd suggest taking the application in so you can speak to the clerk and point out how urgent it is.