Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Age Discrimination re employment benefits

24 replies

DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat · 10/05/2022 23:54

Firstly, just to clarify, we will be getting legal advice if appropriate - ie if further investigation with employer doesn’t answer the questions we have, but I’m the short term I’d like to know if anyone here has any knowledge of this issue.

DH has worked for current employer since 2009, he was given a standard Life Insurance cover policy at this time (happens to be five times annual salary). All employees get this benefit.

His original contract dated 2009 (he was 59) did say retirement was expected to be actioned when he reached 65. After that point (in 2011) requiring retirement at a certain age became illegal)except in specific circumstances that wouldn’t apply to his industry or specific circumstances). As it happened his employer was eager to confirm he would NOT be retiring then - he has a very desirable skill set and, probably more importantly for them, a vast contact list built up over his almost 50 years in the industry. From a personal perspective - with three children still in full time education (I’m 20 years younger than DH) he had no intention of retiring then, or now.

He had a personal Life Insurance policy that he set up some time ago, it expired when he was 70. He has since set up a further policy for another ten years but it is, necessarily for less payout due to increased cost. He turned 70 in March and so, based the personal LIP ending when he was 70, he recently (two months after his 70th birthday) enquired about his work based LIP. He had received no information regarding it from his employer prior or since turning 70.

He has been told that the policy ended when he turned 70 and they will not be renewing it. He is the only employee without a work Life Insurance policy as he is the only employee over 70.

So, the question is, with regard to the Equality Act is this discrimination based on Age as a protected characteristic? It wasn’t even communicated to him that it was ended, it was only because he enquired that it was highlighted.

We have contacted Age UK and ACAS but now there are clear on this and suggest a specialist solicitor (which we will do). Just wondering if the MN legal expertise has any insight before we do?

OP posts:
DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat · 10/05/2022 23:57

Good grief, spag appalling there, hopefully it’s still legible!

OP posts:
myuterusistryingtokillme · 11/05/2022 00:17

It's a difficult one as the company can't control the rules that the insurance companies set.

You'll find a lot of benefits change as you get older e.g. private medical is far more expensive once someone reaches 65, and some of the others cease at 70 because the risk becomes too great. I'm not entirely sure what you expect the Company to do?

SarahWoodruff · 11/05/2022 00:33

There is an exemption from age discrimination for employers offering insured benefits such as life assurance where these stop at the greater of 65 and state pension age. But no automatic exemption if cover ends at a different age. It's a complex area and probably worth getting specific advice.

DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat · 11/05/2022 06:58

myuterusistryingtokillme · 11/05/2022 00:17

It's a difficult one as the company can't control the rules that the insurance companies set.

You'll find a lot of benefits change as you get older e.g. private medical is far more expensive once someone reaches 65, and some of the others cease at 70 because the risk becomes too great. I'm not entirely sure what you expect the Company to do?

The insurance policy they have used so far has a cut off of 70 but life insurance can be obtained for over 70s (as I said, he has bought himself a small policy for the next 10 years). Yes it would be more expensive for the company but, if every other employee gets iLife insurance and the only reason he doesn’t is because of his age, then that seems discriminatory. Interesting point by PP that there is exemption in some cases. As mentioned, there was no specific mention of life cover ending at 70 in his contract. I guess we’ll need a specialist in employment and/or contract law.

OP posts:
DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat · 11/05/2022 07:05

SarahWoodruff · 11/05/2022 00:33

There is an exemption from age discrimination for employers offering insured benefits such as life assurance where these stop at the greater of 65 and state pension age. But no automatic exemption if cover ends at a different age. It's a complex area and probably worth getting specific advice.

Do you happen to know where that exemption is stated? Is there something specific in the Equality Act?

OP posts:
DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat · 11/05/2022 07:11

Thank you for the link Oviraptor21

OP posts:
GeminiTwin · 11/05/2022 07:31

I can't help with the legal side, but I've worked in LI industry for 8 years (still do.)

Sometimes a company will take out a policy for their employers called a Relevant Life policy where they company pays. It's a blanket policy over a specific term and not on an individual basis. (Unless the company has taken out policies for each of their employers individually depending on the size of the company,) this is what most companies do, as it's the easiest and cheapest (still expensive) way.

The term of the policy is chosen by the employer (age 70, 80, 85 etc) So in this case DHs employers may have the term to age 70 OR when they leave or retire from the business. Whatever comes first. In this case your DH hasn't left or retired. So maybe the the term on the cover as come to and end, for him.
If this is the case, this should have been in his written contract and terms and conditions. If it is in writing in his contract then I don't think he could go down the legal route as he has signed a contract agreeing to this, but I don't know too much about the legal bits.

If the company have taken out individual term assurance (run of the mill life insurance) than they could also have a blanket rule of cover up to 70 for everybody. I doubt the company would've taken out a Whole of Life policy for each individual as they are expensive.

1 You need to find out which one the company have taken out (which type of policy, whether a relevant life cover for every employee, same terms and cons, same term that finishes at age 70, or individual life insurance plans.

2 if it's the latter type of individual cover, is the term the same for every employee to end at age 70 (or whichever age it's ended for your DH)

3 if so, is it in writing in his contract.

If it's not, get legal advice.

There are options for him to get cover but due to age it will be more expensive. Companies will not continue to cover an employee usually after they retire and leave so it's always best to have your own cover in the background as the day you leave a company, normally if the company is paying, the cover terminates and you're left with trying to find cover at a higher premium due to age.

As your husband hasn't left or retired my guess (and this is a guess) is they've taken out a blanket policy for staff which ends when they are 70. Regardless of tenure, skill set or seniority.

GeminiTwin · 11/05/2022 07:37

Just to add, if it's not in his official contract, the company should've sent policy documents and a letter of wishes / trust form to your DH so he has some kind of documentation for the cover and also so he has the option to put in writing what happens to the payout if he were to pass away instead of the money going to probate and, depending on the amount, subjected to inheritance tax.

But that's a bit of a can of worms there.

But he should have some kind of documentation for his policy.

Ask his employer for policy documents, if he has had cover with them, they will be able to contact the life insurance company to send you the Ts&Cs of the policy.

DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat · 11/05/2022 09:18

Thank you GeminiTwin. His contract only states that Life Insurance is provided as a benefit (for all employees). There is no mention of a cut off point when the employee reaches 70 in his contract. He had no expectation that life insurance would extend to after retirement or leaving the company but obviously, given it was in his contract , he did have the expectation it would continue for the term of his employment, as it does for all other employees. The 5x salary provision for LI was definitely an attractive factor when he took the job because we had (and still have) a young family - he has a personal LI but it is not that much, he got the cover we could reasonably afford - which is why the work benefit of LI was important.
I think the key thing is what PP mentioned, whether there is an exemption in the Equality Act to allow employers to not offer some benefits based on age. I’ve looked but I can’t find it anywhere. We will get professional advice though.

OP posts:
Matchingcollarandcuffs · 11/05/2022 09:25

Did he just continue working on the same contract? Where I work people are retired at retirement age and then rehired on a new contract (it is v rate that people return but it has been known). The rehiring comes with its own set of terms and conditions, due in part to issues such as these.

Just a thought . .

vivainsomnia · 11/05/2022 09:29

Does the contract refers to agreeing to the company terms and references, policies etc... Is there a policy for LI and it is specified in there, then it counts as included in the contract.

DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat · 11/05/2022 09:51

Matchingcollarandcuffs · 11/05/2022 09:25

Did he just continue working on the same contract? Where I work people are retired at retirement age and then rehired on a new contract (it is v rate that people return but it has been known). The rehiring comes with its own set of terms and conditions, due in part to issues such as these.

Just a thought . .

Definitely no new contract. His original contract stated retirement age of 65, but that was in 2009 and the law changed in 2011 to say that there was no default age. In fact, as I mentioned, his company (had a mini panic) were eager to find out he WASN’T retiring when he was 65 - his boss hadn’t realised how old he was, though he was in his fifties. There was no new contract, he just carried on working. I imagine the issue is, this has never happened in his company before and they just hadn’t considered it.

OP posts:
DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat · 11/05/2022 09:52

vivainsomnia · 11/05/2022 09:29

Does the contract refers to agreeing to the company terms and references, policies etc... Is there a policy for LI and it is specified in there, then it counts as included in the contract.

Ok, thank you, I will check this with him.

OP posts:
vivainsomnia · 11/05/2022 09:55

Sorry, just realised, it's terms and conditions, not references!

GeminiTwin · 11/05/2022 11:09

DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat · 11/05/2022 09:18

Thank you GeminiTwin. His contract only states that Life Insurance is provided as a benefit (for all employees). There is no mention of a cut off point when the employee reaches 70 in his contract. He had no expectation that life insurance would extend to after retirement or leaving the company but obviously, given it was in his contract , he did have the expectation it would continue for the term of his employment, as it does for all other employees. The 5x salary provision for LI was definitely an attractive factor when he took the job because we had (and still have) a young family - he has a personal LI but it is not that much, he got the cover we could reasonably afford - which is why the work benefit of LI was important.
I think the key thing is what PP mentioned, whether there is an exemption in the Equality Act to allow employers to not offer some benefits based on age. I’ve looked but I can’t find it anywhere. We will get professional advice though.

Definitely get legal advice.

I would've thought though it's the same blanket terms for all employees IE the cover terminates when they are 70. In which case I don't know if you would stand anywhere in legal terms. As long as it's the same Ts&Cs with each employee that is ceases at 70.

Our company that I work for (insurance / financial advisory) we are all covered with term assurance until 75, or when we retire or leave. Whichever comes first. It's the same rule for everyone.

You're best finding out if this is the case with your DH, if it's just him, or for the same with everybody. Baring that in mind it's always best to have your own individual plans (which you have done with DH) so you're covered regardless as everybody knows the older you are, the more expensive it is.

Good luck OP, I hope you get the answers your looking for.

DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat · 11/05/2022 12:04

I would've thought though it's the same blanket terms for all employees IE the cover terminates when they are 70. In which case I don't know if you would stand anywhere in legal terms. As long as it's the same Ts&Cs with each employee that is ceases at 70

Yes, I see what you mean. Though there is no mention of that in the contract. I’ll have to check the ‘terms and conditions’ bit that PP mentioned just in case it’s covered there. But as the contracts used to state retirement at 65, and no new/revised contracts have ever been issued since that became redundant when the law changed, and DH being the oldest member of staff by some way, I suspect they just haven’t encountered it before.

Thank you for your help everyone, if I get to the bottom of it I’ll come back and update in case anyone has a similar issue in future.

OP posts:
Figgygal · 11/05/2022 14:22

We have a group life assurance policy and it also ceases at 70
It is set by our policy provider and we have no flex on it

HermioneWeasley · 11/05/2022 14:27

If your husband is a valued employee, I suggest he asks nicely about cover. Threatening legal action for discrimination will just get everyone’s backs up.

DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat · 11/05/2022 14:42

HermioneWeasley · 11/05/2022 14:27

If your husband is a valued employee, I suggest he asks nicely about cover. Threatening legal action for discrimination will just get everyone’s backs up.

Seeking legal advice about potential discrimination isn’t ‘threatening legal action’. He’s already asked ‘nicely’ whether they have him covered and he was told (by the HR dept which is outsourced to Bulgaria, so unsure of whether they are up to date on U.K. employment and equality law) that they won’t be renewing after 70. Getting proper advice on whether that is acceptable or discriminatory is surely the sensible route. I thought I’d ask here in the Legal forum in case anyone ad come across this scenario before.

OP posts:
GeminiTwin · 11/05/2022 14:49

Figgygal · 11/05/2022 14:22

We have a group life assurance policy and it also ceases at 70
It is set by our policy provider and we have no flex on it

Us too, at age 75.
Seems to be the norm in companies that take cover out for their employees. As long as it's the same thing for each employee, the insurance ends at 70, I don't think, legally, they've done anything wrong.

DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat · 11/05/2022 14:54

Yes, he needs to check the wording of the contract and if as previously suggested it refers to agreeing to terms and conditions (and policies), and said policy says all LI ends at 70 for everyone, then clearly it’s ok. I do know that his contract does not specifically refer to his LI ending at 70 though.

OP posts:
myuterusistryingtokillme · 12/05/2022 13:15

Figgygal · 11/05/2022 14:22

We have a group life assurance policy and it also ceases at 70
It is set by our policy provider and we have no flex on it

Yep we do too, people aren't insured individually so individual exceptions can't be made - it's a blanket policy with a blanket cut off

TizerorFizz · 13/05/2022 21:03

Usually such details are contained in an employee handbook or “conditions of service” document and the contract then refers to where an employee finds more information. My DH is coming up to 69 so I’m interested in his position too.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread