Right to return to England with children

[HighlandCowRose]

This is possibly a very stupid question.

My DH's job is moving to Scotland soon and then the children and I are due to move up the following year (delaying our move due to education reasons)

We've been having some relationship problems and whilst I expect us to get past them and move on I'm concerned where I stand if we move to Scotland and the relationship doesn't work out, am I able to bring the children back.

I was reading a thread where the posters husband wanted to go to home country and she didn't and she was being advised she could get stuck there if relationship broke down and I wanted to check the same didn't apply with England and Scotland, because they're both in the UK we'd be able to come back wouldn't we?
Thanks

It is the same country so, yes , you and children can move freely without needing agreement of the other parent.

It would be domestic relocation as it's within the UK. Legally you wouldn't be breaking the law but ideally the two of you would agree on it.
See childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/travel-and-relocation/

Thank you both,

I very much doubt I'd move them again because of the upheaval but wanted to be sure of my options just in case.

The education system used to be fairly different in Scotland (or at least, it was when I went to school in Scotland a million years ago) which could be an extra complication depending what age your DC are. But probably you already know that ..

This is not true. If the other parent wanted to
Object they can take you to family court to battle it out. Court will decide. Not necessarily in your favour and it can take months-years etc. Will look at children’s school. Support networks. Relationship. Intact with parents and children’s wishes depending on age. You can just do a runner but your not supposed to change school without other parents agreement.

Also I’ve been told the Scottish legal
System are less likely to grant relocation than English family court.

Your husband could apply for a prohibited steps order. To stop you returning.

They are different legal jurisdictions (as is Northern Ireland).

The same applies moving Cornwall to Berwick. I.e the other parent can apply to the court to
Stop you moving. Scotland is still
A internal relocation but it’s more the distance and plans for contact they will consider . Also they will be able to argue swapping in and out of education systems may not be in children’s interests. So
Be fully informed. Only move if you want to.

Scotland and England have different legal jurisdiction so it is NOT the same as moving many miles within England.

If you relationship is ok a poor state I would stay put rather than risk being stuck away from your family and friend support network.

It’s still a internal relocation though so the law is pretty similar I believe . I.e it is not abduction or a move abroad. Although the sentiment of the Scottish family court may be different.

My friend had to go to court to be allowed to leave Northern Ireland and move home to England. It was out of the jurisdiction?

It’s the same moving in England, Wales and Scotland. It is the same considerations welfare of child. They are all internal locations people get hung up on it being a different legal jurisdiction but this is not the main issue ime.

OK, little confused, people saying different things.

We don't want to move to Scotland because we're 'happy' here, I'm sure it's lovely in fact it's my preferred landscape, mountains/lochs etc, we live on the coast atm but this is home and none of us want to leave but DH job is relocating and we've been given little choice, he is applying for alternative jobs within the organisation closer to home. We live hours away from family here but i have a small support network in the sense that I could contact other school mums in an emergency.

The reason we're looking at moving a year later than Dh is because eldest is doing her A-levels and we want her to be able to finish them rather than move her at such an important and difficult stage. Youngest should be OK-ish, still primary age.

I can't see myself moving back due to the disruption to youngest, eldest should be in uni by then but wanted to try and have a clear picture of what my options would be if the relationship didn't work out.
Chosing to actively not go because of relationship in effect would mean divorce.

You can’t just leave with the kids if your husband doesn’t agree and can take it to court for them to decide.If he agrees then you can move no problem. The same as you couldn’t just move from say Cornwall to Leeds if your husband disagreed and he took you to court to stop the children moving away. No one could possibly tell you the likelihood of what the courts would decide.

I see, thank you.
The Scotland/England locations are irrelevant it's just a distance thing for parental relationships, contact etc.
Many thanks

Tobe honest someone could get a court order to stop you moving 100 miles, if both separated parents lived within 10minutes and saw children roughly 50 / 50 amove would make contact difficult so it could be stopped or the moving parent made to be responsible for all the cost and time of travelling

Yes, if yo do agree to move to Scotland (or S England to NE England where I am from ) your husband might be able to obtain a court order to prevent the move so you are taking the risk by moving in the first place.

The second legal issue is Scottish law on divorce more generally is different from England so you would be moving your potential divorce jurisdiction to Scottish law. If someone is not getting on with a spouse it is fairly common to try to move to a jurisdiction that suits them better eg London is very popular with many international spouses of rich men as court orders are much much higher than in say Russia or even Scotland so ocuples rush to "seize the jurisdiction" if they have several homes to be the first to start the divorce the country that favours them and sometimes even litigate over which is the proper jurisdiction for that case.

Yes Scotland is a nightmare.
Im English with no family in Scotland.
On leaving my ex I struggled to find anywhere to live locally or in Scotland so temporarily stayed with family in England while I awaited my ex to sort what money he owed me so I could get housing etc as I had no money and everything was coercively put into his name over four years.
I soon discovered he went to the courts even before I decided to leave and put a court order in against me saying I took my child without his permission but he knew where I was going, what the plan was and it was him not giving me my money back out of the relationship that stopped me returning, which he agreed to give me back (all documented evidence).
Because he didn’t organise things, he cut me off, he made me homeless and I was in a women’s refuge in England and forced by him through the courts to return my child to him within 48 hours with no agreement in place to see my own son after this, who is under two and still breastfeeding.
He told the courts he was the main carer despite never having my child alone more than a few hours, recently suffered heart attacks, has mental health issues and had suddenly stopped taking his medication, works full time on the home farm and where I had safeguarding and abuse evidence. None of this was taken into consideration because in Scottish law I acted unlawfully and it was as black and white as that!
Thankfully I was able to present myself homeless in Scotland and halt the court order and I remained resident parent due to an amazing solicitor and pure luck!

But now I’m not only ordered to remain in Scotland (the father’s country) but even in the local county to my abusive ex. I’m having a very hard time defending myself now he’s set the order.
Im isolated, controlled by him still and he’s even admitted he’s struggling with even just under 50% contact.
Ive involved police, social services and it’s only now after months people are starting to listen to me but sadly my son is suffering with the whole situation as he was only ever used to me being the main carer.

this is crazy. I am so sorry you went through all of that. I have the opposite issue whereby I have been back in Scotland for 2 months with my baby who's under 1 - with my husband's agreement following our separation - but I have so much fear he will make the same urgent order. exact same situ whereby I am primary caregiver etc + facilitating contact . do you have any advice at all? xx

The financial rules on divorce in Scotland are also significantly different.

AFAIK Scotland is treated as a separate jurisdiction so taking a child 'across the border' even if its Gretna to Carlisle is more complicated

Also I believe that the cut off for Child Arrangements is 18 in Scotland compared to in England