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Legal matters

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Original poster

Sister has mum's house

59 replies

user1487194234 · 28/02/2022 06:10

Mum has dementia
It has come to light that about 1 year ago she transferred her house to my sister

There is absolutely no way mum had capacity to do that
Mum's husband died recently and mum has to go into residential care
The social worker phoned me to go over some details and she asked me if my mum owned any property and I said yes
My sister had said no when she filled in the form
The social worker has referred it to the legal department
What is likely to happen

OP posts:
Elfsumflowerpig · 28/02/2022 06:12

Oh my goodness. I am not a lawyer, but that is absolutely horrendous behaviour from your sister.

nuffinimlazyatthemoment · 28/02/2022 06:39

If your mum has to pay care home fees and has no other savings, it will come out of the house, won't it? As it was only a year ago, it will be seen as deprivation of assets (I'm not a lawyer though).

Did your sister live with your mum? Was she trying to avoid losing the house to fees? (Despicable behaviour from your sister either way).

Louisianagumbo · 28/02/2022 06:44

We looked into doing something similar but there's just no way of doing it that they won't come after the property or proceeds from the property.

Original poster
user1487194234 · 28/02/2022 07:34

She lived with her husband
Can't understand how the solicitor who did the transfer went ahead as no way she had capacity

OP posts:
WutheringHeights66 · 28/02/2022 07:37

Does your sister have form for being being greedy and sneaky? Definitely deprivation of assets and worse in view of a solicitor transferring the house when she didn’t have capacity.

Okbutnotgreat · 28/02/2022 07:43

Has your sister done/sorted all the care for your mum or is it something you have dealt with 50/50?

Original poster
user1487194234 · 28/02/2022 07:48

We are both involved
Does that make a difference to the legal position

OP posts:
VioletLemon · 28/02/2022 07:50

Is there a reason you can't speak to your sister in person and go over the paperwork What about power of attorney? This sounds very upsetting, speak to a lawyer.

Totalwasteofpaper · 28/02/2022 07:55

Your sister will likely get done for deprivation of assets.

In no way help support or collude with her stay close to the process and be totally honest.

Sorry this is happening it must be very stressful Flowers

LeticiaLeghorn · 28/02/2022 08:05

What is it exactly that you're concerned about? That your mum won't have enough money for a care home? That your sister might get in trouble? That you might get in trouble? Or that you feel you've lost your share in the house? Because it's difficult to know what you want advice about

ChuckBerrysBoots · 28/02/2022 08:11

There isn’t usually any “getting done” for deprivation of assets - it’s not, afaik, a crime. What is likely to happen though is that the recipient of the asset (your sister) will become liable for care fees incurred by your mother as it is likely due to the property she will be required to pay them in full, and the council will seek to recover those fees from her.

Shmithecat2 · 28/02/2022 08:15

Read this link OP, maybe give them a call for advice. It's dependant upon your council. It doesn't look great though.

Jossbow · 28/02/2022 08:20

Deprivation of assets doesnt have any effect on any one else. The person deprived of the asset is simly treated as though they still had the asset, andcharged fees as appropriate.

I doubt wether anyone else can be made iable to pay those fees.
Having capasityto give away your assets is one thing.
Doing it without capasity is a whole other thing

Anyone have POA?

gogohm · 28/02/2022 08:25

The asset will simply be treated as if your mum owned it as it's under 7 years. There's no fine about it - your sister will need to sell and pay for the care home fees.

I suspect your sister was trying to protect the money

AnotherForumUser · 28/02/2022 08:27

The social worker would have referred it to the legal team as your sister's actions are a safeguarding issue. With no capacity to transfer your sister may well have commited fraud.

Associatepeggy · 28/02/2022 08:28

If the sister was simply trying to protect the money, she would have involved op.

Mummyoflittledragon · 28/02/2022 08:34

I hope your sister is pursued for deprivation of assets. I would also pursue your sister personally. Vile, just vile.

Earlydancing · 28/02/2022 08:34

The council will go after the property regardless of whose name it's in. They'll probably put a lien on it so it can't be sold and then they'll bill your sister for the costs accrued. It's then your sisters responsibility to come up with the money, either by disposing of the house or from another source.

It happens all the time and there's no way round it.

harrumphs · 28/02/2022 08:48

Does anyone have POA?

knittingaddict · 28/02/2022 08:48

@gogohm

The asset will simply be treated as if your mum owned it as it's under 7 years. There's no fine about it - your sister will need to sell and pay for the care home fees.

I suspect your sister was trying to protect the money

There is no 7 year rule for deprivation of assets, although it's a commonly held misunderstanding. The 7 year thing is for inheritance tax. Deprivation of assets has no time limit as such. This situation will definitely be deprivation of assets.
PegasusReturns · 28/02/2022 08:53

Which element are you concerned about.

The biggest issue is your mum will be pursued for care costs as if she owned the house.

The vibe from your post is that you feel your sister has ripped you off.

Advice depends on issue you want to resolve.

UniversalAunt · 28/02/2022 09:45

‘ The social worker would have referred it to the legal team as your sister's actions are a safeguarding issue. With no capacity to transfer your sister may well have commited fraud.’

Unfortunately there are solicitors around who do not follow best practice when it comes to determining if a client, particularly if they have dementia, has capacity to make a will or give instructions.

I suggest that you take prompt legal advice to determine if your mother can give you some form of power of attorney - given her degree of dementia - & then approach her dementia consultant & the social worker to work out the best solution. This is so that you can formally advocate for your mum about her wellbeing & any financial matters. Your sister has ruled herself out of the game given her false declaration & the safeguarding alert.

Now is the time to step up to resolve these matters. Get informed & work with the social services to sort things out for your mum so that she can settle in her new place.

Also get legal advice about how the existing will can be revoked - be cautious in your approach because if your mum did not have capacity then, she won’t have it now. It may be that a will made before she developed dementia can stand.

What is important is that your mother is safe & well in residential care that suits her & if you & your mum want to do this, you have some form of attorney for both her health/wellbeing & financial matters so that you can advocate on her behalf.

It may be that the safeguarding review leads to the legal team raising her case with the Court of Protection. This is a significant step to protect your mother & would likely take place after attempts to resolve matters by the local social services.

Get legal advice, get informed.

sunshinesupermum · 28/02/2022 09:52

Most definitely deprivation of assets. Who has POA for your mother?

UniversalAunt · 28/02/2022 10:15

Not quite clear…CoP after attempts to resolve at local social services had not worked.

Original poster
user1487194234 · 28/02/2022 10:45

Thanks for all responses
I am not interested in a share of the property
I really want to know if the house will be sold to meet her care needs
Her husband had POA
She is not capable of doing a new POA

Sister applied for guardianship,she didn't tell me but I legally had to be advised
Social worker said it might be fraud

OP posts: