Ground floor flat extension - neighbour terrace dispute

[joytn12]

Hi there,

We have been granted the planning permission for our ground floor flat. however, the challenge is that the upstairs neighbour who has a small terrace over my roof has been very difficult. The terrace (probably 2sqm, has enough space for 2 small chair and a coffee table but no space to walk around) has some incorrect decking which is not appropriate for a terrace and could potentially damage the roof, the condition of the terrace is truly below average. However, the owner of the flat above has said that it's an important aspect of the flat which he would like to sell in the future and my build might devalue his flat, impact his view.

In order to build the extension, even with the legal approval, we still need his permission to safely remove and rebuild the terrace as part of the extension. He has been quite difficult and very slow to response to my request. Since the council objected to the terrace extension, he also asked for deed of easement to my extended roof which we have told him to proceed, I think he realised it would cost him money so he stopped the topic. His typical response is if always along the line of "if I'm not happy with proposal , I won't agree" but without actually telling me what he wanted, he wanted me to propose something that he will be happy with. He also opted to go appointed his own partywall surveyor because he was worried the extension will devalue his flat (which overlook our garden and has been empty for over a year, unkept). we have a very competent architect and have paid a lot for that, the design is very good and will be a huge improvement compare to the current outlook. The replacement terrace will also cost us 3k to build (on top of the x amount on his party wall surveyor).

I feel like we have no choice but keep on trying to get his agreement and wait in despair even though I have the permission to extend and he has no power to stop it (he would if he could).

Is there anything legally we can do? I assume if we proceed with the removal of my roof which will we have the right to but in effect it will damage his terrace or worse collapse it then he can sue us?

Many thanks
T

Your surveyor should be advising and dealing with this as part of the party wall process so that you don't have to.
Paying for his surveyor is something you have to suck up if you want to extend and it affects a neighbour. That's his right but the surveyors should be dealing with the issue to resolve it and to remove the personal element ie the likelihood of neighbours falling out.

How long has the terrace been there?

Is it a legitimate construction? Ie does it have doorway access and correctly installed railings/edge protection? Unless very old these should have signed off by building regs and will also have needed planning permission- you can’t just use any old bit of roof.

FWIW I had problems with a neighbor using a roof above my extension, and it was legally a nightmare, and ultimately caused us to move. Sorry if that’s not what you want to hear.

Are you freehold or leasehold?

Thanks! Our partywall surveyor unfortunately has said that we will need to get his permission because it's not party of the partywall awards, the only thing they can do is potentially to discuss about the compensation for the period which the terrace.

@Lonelycrab The terrace seemed to be a legitimate one because we can see the outline in the land registry (2010). I'm trying to get hold of their original lease (circ 1987) to find out as the 2010 lease didnt mention the area. I'm so sorry to hear that you had to move :(. We purchased the flat because of the potential to extend as it seems like a good opportunity to make a home and we wouldn't be able to afford a house in that area. It's been an absolute nightmare because of this one person

@Gazelda It's a leasehold and we got the permission from the freeholder.

joy does it have a door or are they climbing through a window? And does it have sturdy railings/barrier at the edge? Has the roof been constructed as a proper load bearing surface?
Did it have planning permission?
Does it have building regs?

All these should be a yes otherwise it may not legally be fit to be used as a living area in the first place, regardless of what a lease may imply. That was the legal advice we arrived at after many months.

nothing you can do other than offer him a sum of money, which I think is reasonable

@Lonelycrab It has a door/window (the one that can open the top part only or top and bottom part). It has a balustrade. It's unclear whether the roof was constructed as a proper load bearing surface, would the structure engineer be able to help me answering this? I can't find a specific planning permission wrt the terrace, I will continue digging. My worry is that it has been in place for a long time without much information available. I will let you know if I find something

Hi @thanktor, yes, I would consider paying a compensation. However, how much would it be appropriate? given the build, we are cash tight and it would cost about 4.5k already taking into account his partywall surveyor and rebuilding of the terrace to a nice standard. I worry that he will not tell me what he want as he always want to see what I have to say first then say no to the proposal.

joy ok it’s likely to be safe then, as the doorway and ballastrude are present, this is different to my situation which was climbing out of a window onto an edgeless roof that had been deemed unsuitable for use by a structural engineer. If it has been in use for many years (is it 12+) without a planning challenge then it may be exempt.

I think you’re just going to have to offer compensation as has been said.

@joytn12

Hi *@thanktor*, yes, I would consider paying a compensation. However, how much would it be appropriate? given the build, we are cash tight and it would cost about 4.5k already taking into account his partywall surveyor and rebuilding of the terrace to a nice standard. I worry that he will not tell me what he want as he always want to see what I have to say first then say no to the proposal.

Impossible to answer Without knowing Value of properties And an independent estate agents x3 view on how his value will decline.

@thanktor, he tried putting his flat for sales for 450k last year but couldn't sell so it's now rented out at the moment. Without the terrace it would definitely devalue the property but have a nicer new terrace on a an extended roof would hardly reduce any value especially now the view is down to an overgrown unkept garden and a railway. Though I might be biased. Thanks for a suggestion on a getting estate agents view. It might take a long time but I guess it could be an option to propose to him.