Phone ownership

[AnonymousAnonymously]

Parent bought adult who was a minor at the time a phone. The parent returned the phone to the child who was approaching adulthood. The then child is now an adult living at home with autism rent free. Thr parent is the adults carer. The parent describes the phone as the adults phone, but will describe it as their own if they want to take it back at any time to look through. The parent has not given permission for the adult to set a password. The parent has their own phone and does not use the adults phone for any other purpose. The phone is linked to the childs google accounts under their own name, and has a sim card that the adult has payed for. The adult pays for the data, calls and texts.

Is it legal for the parent to do this?

The phone belongs to whoever purchased it and pays the account.

The phone is the adult child's. The parent could claim ownership of the sim I guess but they sound like an arse.

@LIZS

The phone belongs to whoever purchased it and pays the account.

It doesn't belong to whoever bought it if it's a gift.

Have you ever tried to change a tariff or account name? Only the purchased can unless permission is explicitly given . If the phone is not paid off it belongs to whoever is paying for it. If it was bought outright it could be construed as a gift.

The parent bought the phone when the adult was a minor. The adult still has and uses the phone but owns the sim card inside the phone and pays the bill for it.

Sorry I misread that the parent pays the bill. In that case the phone is entirely the non-parent adults.

Even if the parent is the adults carer as the adult has autism? Could the parent show receipt for the phone and get it back? How does the adult them prove it was given as a gift? Would the adult be best to buy their own phone

Yeah being a carer doesn't give you ownership of the possessions of the person you're caring for.

It'd be a really strange thing to go to those lengths to prove.

Id be concerned about the other ways the adult with autism is being manipulated if this is what their carer is like.

As your carer, the parent is trying to keep you safe. If you as the adult with ASD don't think it's necessary for your parent to keep you safe in this way, the best thing to do would be to ask Social Services to do a needs assessment to assess whether you have to capacity to manage your own affairs in this way.

@girlmom21

Yeah being a carer doesn't give you ownership of the possessions of the person you're caring for.

It'd be a really strange thing to go to those lengths to prove.

Id be concerned about the other ways the adult with autism is being manipulated if this is what their carer is like.

It depends on the capacity of the person who is being cared for. It might be absolutely appropriate. DD1 is 16 (an adult in DWP's eyes) but is still absolutely in need of safeguarding, which includes monitoring and curtailing her internet usage. If she had a phone (she doesn't have one because of sticky situations having one got her into) I would need to check the phone very regularly.

Anyone else lost?

@WinterSpringSummerorFall

Anyone else lost?

The OP has ASD and is trying to find out if their parent who is also their carer is justified in their behaviour.

The parent doesn't really want the handset though do they? They want to invade the adult's privacy. If I were the adult I would keep my simple and go and sort out a new handset

*Sim not simple

Parent buys own phone, adult takes over responsibility and payment of original phone and sim.

@SeasonFinale

The parent doesn't really want the handset though do they? They want to invade the adult's privacy. If I were the adult I would keep my simple and go and sort out a new handset

Unless you know what the needs of the adult are you can't judge. Safeguarding and privacy are often conflict. Not all adults have the capacity to exercise privacy.

So buy your own? The item is bought and paid for by your parent. You don't like the rules surrounding it, which if they see you as vulnerable, they may feel is necessary. You live with them. Your options are- buy a new phone, and if you feel they are too controlling, move out. I'm sure you've posted before with similar issues, if you're unhappy, talk to someone about helping you leave.

@BrandyAB

Parent buys own phone, adult takes over responsibility and payment of original phone and sim.

This is nothing to do with the parent needing a phone. The parent has a phone. They are asking the adult to see their phone to check their messages, then when that adult says no, they say 'well it's my phone because I bought it.'

The question is whether the adult can manage their own affairs safely or whether they need safeguarding in a way that will restrict their privacy.

The adult, years ago, whilst a minor was talking to strangers and being groomed. The adult has grown up and has the capacity now but is uncomfortable with the parent checking the phone.

The parent has previously discussed the adults private diary entries with relatives and friends, and has shown themselves repeatedly to be untrustworthy with any findings about the adult, which would apply to their phone.

So the issue is "can they parent legally have access to the phone to check for wrongness?"

Yes

The person paying for the phone owns the phone and can do with it what they want. It can’t really be a gift because it is an ongoing expense, the phone is at best loaned to the descendant. The descendant who has permission to use the phone could log out of personal accounts after using them to prevent access. The owner of the phone could then decide to simply revoke permission to use the phone entirely.

I think the adult should buy their own phone and pay for their own data etc

It's not about who owns the phone. It's whose data it is. It's the adults data so parent can't go in snooping.