Application of intestacy rules

[Road2nowhere]

V long story short ...

Mum recently died. Her (alleged) husband still lives in her house. Land registry is still in her previous name and our late father's.

There is no proof they ever married. We cannot find any record online. There was no service that people were invited to. Spoken with local registry office - nothing. Spoken with GRO nothing.

I understand that, when applying intestacy rules the fact of if they were married or not is critical but how do we find out?

Neither the hospital where she died, the funeral home or registry office to register the death have proof of their marriage.

Where do I go next? I don't want to approach a solicitor without clear information to avoid huge unnecessary costs.

It's not as simple as just asking her husband....he has form for control and manipulation and cannot be trusted.

Also, we are in England and Estate is leas than 270k

Sorry for your loss OP

Surely he'd have to prove that they were married, rather than the opposite when dealing with the estate? Maybe not for joint accounts or anything he was named on (she may have nominated him to receive a works pension or insurance policy for instance). Is it the house you are concerned about?

He wouldn't have to prove that to register the death or to the undertakers/funeral home though.

A lot of solicitors will do a free 30 minute consultation. I've spoken to 2 separate solicitors at different times just to discuss the case. One of them was invaluable. I would give this a try.

It's not as simple as just asking her husband....he has form for control and manipulation and cannot be trusted.

It is fairly simple. He needs to produce a marriage certificate. No amount of control, manipulation and untrustworthiness can produce a (verifiable) marriage certificate from thin air.

Exactly. I would engage a solicitor to administer the estate as your mother died intestate. Provided she didn't leave a will. He would have to prove he was married to her. As previous poster said doesn't matter how manipulative he is. He has to produce legal documentation to prove it.
Also was house in joint names and not tenants in common so it passed to your mum on your dad's death.

@ChicCroissant

Sorry for your loss OP

Surely he'd have to prove that they were married, rather than the opposite when dealing with the estate? Maybe not for joint accounts or anything he was named on (she may have nominated him to receive a works pension or insurance policy for instance). Is it the house you are concerned about?

He wouldn't have to prove that to register the death or to the undertakers/funeral home though.

Yes I guess there's just the house that is the estate. She didn't have anything else other than maybe some savings (joint account).

He won't need to prove marriage in order to stop her pension and so on. Can he just go on living in the house without actioning anything if he chooses to in which case proof of marriage won't be asked for. Only if he ever chose to sell it?

He says they both made a will buy again, won't show it to anyone so we've no idea if his lying about this either.

@Honey83

A lot of solicitors will do a free 30 minute consultation. I've spoken to 2 separate solicitors at different times just to discuss the case. One of them was invaluable. I would give this a try.

Thank you. I will try this avenue to gain info/advice.

@PurpleCarpets

It's not as simple as just asking her husband....he has form for control and manipulation and cannot be trusted.

It is fairly simple. He needs to produce a marriage certificate. No amount of control, manipulation and untrustworthiness can produce a (verifiable) marriage certificate from thin air.

Not to me though, only to any necessary authorities which in this case would be in the eventuality he sold the house yes? So he could stay put and do nothing ?

He can't sell the house as he does not own it.

So you can ask him to leave and he'd have to prove he had the right to stay (Ie married her or they were joint tenants or a new Will)

@MrsClatterbuck

Exactly. I would engage a solicitor to administer the estate as your mother died intestate. Provided she didn't leave a will. He would have to prove he was married to her. As previous poster said doesn't matter how manipulative he is. He has to produce legal documentation to prove it. Also was house in joint names and not tenants in common so it passed to your mum on your dad's death.

We may ultimately end up doing this but before that, and to avoid huge cost I wanted to be able to say for definite they were or were not married and she did or did not have a will.

I could engage a solicitor and he provide a marriage certificate and thats that but it would cause huge upset (which ideally I want to avoid) and incur alot of cost

As her child you can apply under the intestacy rules to administer her estate. Where there's no will you apply for a grant of representation instead of a grant of probate. You are called the administrator rather than the executor. You can then transfer the house into your name, if necessary evict him, and sell it.

If he can prove be was married to her, or can produce a valid will, he will be able to stop you doing this. If he can't be won't.

@burnoutbabe

He can't sell the house as he does not own it.

So you can ask him to leave and he'd have to prove he had the right to stay (Ie married her or they were joint tenants or a new Will)

Good point. I will ask the solicitor regarding this when I get a 20min consult. Thanks

@PurpleCarpets

As her child you can apply under the intestacy rules to administer her estate. Where there's no will you apply for a grant of representation instead of a grant of probate. You are called the administrator rather than the executor. You can then transfer the house into your name, if necessary evict him, and sell it.

If he can prove be was married to her, or can produce a valid will, he will be able to stop you doing this. If he can't be won't.

Thanks for the info that's really helpful. I guess I wanted to be sure whether or not they were married/had a will or not before jumping into legalities of applying for this & they.

I wanted to be able to say for definite they were or were not married and she did or did not have a will.

You can't prove a negative. He must prove the positive by producing the documents. The only way you can force him to do this is a described in my post above.

@PurpleCarpets

As her child you can apply under the intestacy rules to administer her estate. Where there's no will you apply for a grant of representation instead of a grant of probate. You are called the administrator rather than the executor. You can then transfer the house into your name, if necessary evict him, and sell it.

If he can prove be was married to her, or can produce a valid will, he will be able to stop you doing this. If he can't be won't.

Exactly what Purple said. If the ex wants to claim otherwise - they're married, there's a will, or he has some other claim to the property, then the onus is on him to demonstrate that is the case.

Change the locks. Don't give him a key unless he produces a marriage certificate. If he is difficult he may refuse to leave so changing the locks may be the only option. What explaination did your mother give when she eas alive for not inviting you to the wedding?

Quick update, we've located a marriage record now so have confirmation they were indeed married.

This means that the house now passes to him. He says mum made a will but we haven't seen it yet and are guessing that it will say the house passes to him anyway.

The land registry is still in my mum & dad's name though. Will this pose any problems for mum's husband?

The land registry is still in my mum & dad's name though. Will this pose any problems for mum's husband?

No, because the executor (or whoever is dealing with the probate side) will be the one who signs the forms to pass it on to him. He may well be the executor anyway.