Property and will stuff

[Legalconundrums]

Changed name to post after seeing a thread on here about wills and inheritance- apologies if this should be in Legal, happy to have it moved.

My dad died nearly 2 years ago without a will and my mum, who is terminally ill herself, didn't deal with his estate other than get his name off the bank account and a few bills. She did get his pension stopped. Other than that, nothing. She won't allow me or my brother to get involved. I know my dad had some shares, not much, but mum is still receiving the dividends I'm his name.

The house, an old Victorian semi, huge plot and with a separate piece of land of about a third of an acre, rural setting but very accessible to direct transport links to the Capital, it is literally next to a train station main route to London, ideal to commute. Value is around 7 - 800k, possibly a lot more.

Am I right in thinking that the rules of intestate apply and something should have happened to my dad's half of the estate ? His name is still on the land registry for the house and separate land.

My mum is not likely to survive many more years and I'm getting a bit worried about a potential financial headache because my dad's share wasn't properly dealt with on his death.

Mum won't really discuss it and she hasn't made a will either. I'm really not sure how to approach it with her.

were they legally married?

Yes they were, thank you for responding

ask for the thread to be moved over to the legal section.
some things automatically pass on to legally wed spouses without a will.
you and your bother should try to sit down with her and kindly ask her to meet with someone regarding this to make things easier for both of you and to prevent any falling out.
banks often times have recommendations and if the shares come through the bank maybe their estate planning team can be persuaded to call her and book an appointment to review her finances.

Thank you. Not wishing to drip feed, my brother won't get involved at all for reasons I can't really disclose as it might out me/us but it is to do with the piece of land next to the house. Let's just say he doesn't want to rock the boat too much. The more I think about it, the more complicated it is likely to get on her death.

She has mentioned making a will but through one of the charities that offer it for a donation to their cause - I know her circumstances and my late dad's share will likely be out of their scope. There are no cash assets here, it is all property and land.

Hi, OP.
We're moving your thread over to Legal for you now, as requested.

Thank you :-)

@Legalconundrums

Thank you. Not wishing to drip feed, my brother won't get involved at all for reasons I can't really disclose as it might out me/us but it is to do with the piece of land next to the house. Let's just say he doesn't want to rock the boat too much. The more I think about it, the more complicated it is likely to get on her death.

She has mentioned making a will but through one of the charities that offer it for a donation to their cause - I know her circumstances and my late dad's share will likely be out of their scope. There are no cash assets here, it is all property and land.

She can still make a donation, just paid after the property has been sold.

I posted this on the other website, if there was no will it wouldn’t all go to your mum, so did it would go to children

www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will

You need to get it sorted

Hi Chloemol. The will thing is via MacMillan,it is free in exchange for a donation. I guess what I was trying to say is, it's not that straightforward and we need to untangle my late dad's share first before she makes a will.

I totally agree I need to get it sorted but my mum won't discuss my late dad's affairs, she doesn't believe the property is worth much and there are other issues with the land which is currently being used by a business but without the correct planning permission. Frankly it's a bloody mess.

Some things pass to the surviving spouse automatically by way of survivorship, so move outside of intestacy rules, such as items owned as joint tenants- usually joint bank accounts and sometimes properties (if a property is tenants in common then specific shares are owned and those shares could be gifted by will, joint tenants the house will automatically pass to the surviving owner)

If the property was in both your parents names and they’re joint tenants, it will have automatically passed to your mother and your father’s name can be removed from the title at the land registry quite easily. Your mother can then gift the property in her will.

This applies for joint accounts too, usually a death certificate is all that’s needed to take a deceased’s persons name off the account- the money automatically passes to the survivor.

So I suppose it depends if the property was in your father’s sole name, or if it was owned jointly by your parents, were they joint tenants or tenants in common. If joint tenants it’s much easier to deal with!

And with shares, if they’re transferred into her name, you’d usually need Letters of Administration to do that unless they’re under a certain value- which sounds like it could be the case?

Yes it was jointly owned, both the house and the land, joint tenants. It was the potential overall value of the estate that made me think that we needed to do more than we have so far.

do you know the details of the "shares" that may come to an end automatically once your mom dies and may not be transferable.
certain investment plans are often referred to as "shares" but are not the same as stock shares with a specific company.

I think they are BT shares, probably not worth a huge amount, my dad wasn't an investor but the property was where they prioritised.
I really need to speak to mum and suggest she gets her affairs in order, it's a conversation I'm dreading

Anything a spouse inherits benefits from the spousal exemption, so a gift to your mum from your dad is tax free, even if the property is worth £1mil.

Your mum is then able to gift the property in her will. On her passing, on the assumption she hasn’t used her ‘nil rate band’, will have a tax free sum of £325k. Your father’s estate will have the same (on the basis his wasn’t used in his lifetime either) and can be transferred on your mother’s death. So that £650k tax free. If your mum leaves the property to you and/or your brother there is also a residence nil rate band of an additional £175k on both parent’s estates, which takes you up to £1million tax free- anything above that is 40% inheritance tax (unless 10% of the estate goes to charity which is a reduced amount)

Practically it would be good to have probate but I don’t think it should make your mother’s estate more complicated… though the business element without planning sounds not fun!!

Thank you so much for your very clear information, this makes sense and is much appreciated. I've been overthinking it a bit. Yes, the land is ag use but has a business operating from it.. Business use should have been applied for some years ago, that's another issue altogether but not one I have any influence over. My mum just buries her head a bit and hopes it will just magically get sorted out by the Planning Fairies :-)

If the house and land were owned as joint tenants, they automatically passed to your mother on your father's death and did not form part of his estate. Similarly, any joint accounts automatically became hers. So, from your posts, it seems that the shares may be his entire estate. Far from him leaving a hugely valuable estate, it sounds like he left next to nothing (unless the shares are worth more than you think).

Getting the house and land into your mother's sole name should be straightforward - she simply needs to provide a death certificate to the Land Registry and she will become the sole owner. The shares should also be transferred into your mother's name or sold. She (or you if she doesn't want to do it) will probably have to get a Grant of Representation to do that.

Other than that, I doubt there is anything to sort out regarding your father's estate.

No worries, easy to overthink! Yeah I don’t envy you, it’s hard to speak to someone who doesn’t want to acknowledge any issues… hopefully it will be all be okay… have faith in the fairies 😬🙃☺️

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and-wills/who-can-inherit-if-there-is-no-will-the-rules-of-intestacy

www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will

^^Walks through who gets what

Thank you for all the replies, when I did the above link I discounted the fact that my dad's share of the property automatically transferred to my mum. I've not included shares as I think they are minimal.