Domestic abuse/ child contact arrangements . Help!

[Nivealove]

Hello all,

I am feeling a little bit stressed as I have a deadline and hadn't had the time to obtain a solicitor due to unavailability over the festive period.

I was wondering if I could request for my ex to have supervised contact agreed so that it does not end up in court ifyswim.

To give a background. My ex assaulted me three years ago. Went to court, he received a probation (has to attend some DV courses, counselling) a no mol was put in place and he hasn't seen DC for three years. A family solicitor contacted me on behalf of my ex and said that he is requesting for unsupervised contact for once a week. I was going to put in a counter offer of supervised visits leading to unsupervised after reviews/assessments.
Can this all be agreed before a Court order is put in place- if ex agrees. Would Cafcass have to be involved in the interim?

Any advice welcome.

Do you have an initial court date?

@Steelesauce

Do you have an initial court date?

No it's hasn't reached that stage yet. Right now we are negotiating contact via a third party (solicitor). I assume if ex disagrees with my proposal, an application to court would be made.

I wouldn't offer anything at the moment but advise the solicitor you will reply once you have spoken with a solicitor, especially as domestic violence was involved. They cannot make you respond within any time limits.

If he is requesting a child contact order you will have at least three hearings normally, the whole process can take upwards of 6 or more months or so, especially now as the courts are so backlogged. Most hearings are now all online.

If there was dv involved the court would want to obtain safeguarding information/assessments before any final decision was made regarding the contact. Don't be bullied by his solicitor into agreeing anything until you have had legal advice.

Definitely speak to a solicitor. From my experience I wouldn't have been too worried about not having legal representation for the first hearing. It only lasted a few minutes. The second and last more so. If you can't agree contact during the process then normally the court make a decision on the order during the final hearing. This can range from anything from indirect contact to direct contact. The court may decide on a finding of fact hearing regarding the dv and request Cafcass prepare an initial safeguarding report and later a section 7 report.

Speak to a solicitor, don't worry about the timing on the letter. He needs to get a mediation exemption first and the hearings take months. It may not even progress to court so dig your heels in and don't rush and agree to anything you're not comfortable with. In cases like these, it is usually best and safest to go through court.

Thank you both. I really do not want Cafcass involved or go to court as I'm dealing with other things and do not have the mental capacity. If I speak to a solicitor and I propose supervised contact now and ex agrees, what happens then? I have found a contact centre near me which has been NCSS approved and they conduct their own risk assessment. Is this good?

Access centres are not free and you will need to pay. There is no back up for you in this instance. The chances of him applying for court is slim, threatening solicitor letters are much cheaper so please don't bow down because of a letter.

@Steelesauce

Access centres are not free and you will need to pay. There is no back up for you in this instance. The chances of him applying for court is slim, threatening solicitor letters are much cheaper so please don't bow down because of a letter.

Thank you @Steelesauce, knowing him, he will apply the the way to court and I do not have the mental energy to go through that. I have found an reasonable cheap contact centre which I can afford and is NSPCC credit- they will also conduct their own risk assessment and would go through social services if necessary.

To add- I do not mind DC having contact with his father. I just want it supervised initially and I have the means to pay.

Normally, if he wanted the contact then he would pay the contact centre. I would still get legal advice however before you agree to anything. Also bear in mind, some dv offenders suggest contact centres as a means of finding you and finding out where you live - especially if they are bearing grudges if you have made complaints about them.

He assaulted you previously and has been ordered to attend courses. You need to consider your safety and the safety of your children if you are taking the children to a contact centre. This needs to be risk assessed. I would assume that Social Services were involved. You should get in touch with your Social Worker or any dv support agency for some safety advice before agreeing/considering any ongoing arrangement too.

I can completely relate to not feeling at your best mentally or emotionally.
Court cases are draining.
Sounds like some professional free advice would help.. like from Womens Aid or local domestic Abuse service.
Solicitors will protect you though and I found it amazing how they word things to make sure you are not left vulnerable in any way.
A professional who gets to know you,anyone employed at school/pre school with experience of this?
It is good to move on and to not drag up the past, but get support behind you first.

Did he do the courses

When does the non mol end?

Why do you have no issues with a physically violent man having contact with his children?

I would see a decent family solicitor and frankly let a judge decided if he poses a risk based in anything and everything that has happened

Coming to some sort of half baked agreement regarding him supposedly being happy to attend and apt for a contact centre until you seek him ready to progress is a recipe for disaster.

Do you know if he’s done what was asked of him? The courses and counselling? He would need to prove this to the court if it got that far.

I would just reply and say you are getting advice from your own solicitor.

He may struggle for unsupervised contact not only because of the violence but also because he’s not seen his child for 3 years

Thank you everyone. Speaking to his probation officer recently; he has attended all courses, has ongoing counselling and is yet to complete one course of some kind.
I will seek advice before agreeing to anything.

@Debbie, I have two court cases pending (not related to ex and DC) therefore I do not have the mental, financial and emotional capacity to deal with another case. I know my ex and he would no doubt go all the way to court, and the Judge will In fact grant offer some contact of some - I am worried that my ex will eventually grant for 50:50 or some over stay contact which I oppose. If I start now, I have some level of control. The contact centre will be NSPCC accredited and they have their own social workers on hand who will be able to conduct risk assessments, reviews and I have the support from his probation officer and leads who have been facilitating his courses.

Why do you have no issues with a physically violent man having contact with his children

Of course I had issues that's why he didn't see DC for three years and after the assault, I immediately pressed charges and did a non-mol. However, over the past two years, DC has been asking for his dad and the probation officer has been sharing with me ex's progress (e.g. attendance etc). I also made it very clear to court that if ex wanted contact with DC, he will have to do the leg work and initiate contact.

I have met other woman and have read countless and countless of threads where the perpetrators are seeking contact with their DC's and 9/10 the ex's always get contact of some kind. At this stage, I have some level of control. If we approach Cafcass or after the risk assessment , he is deemed not suitable or there's some outstanding issues to address then it can go all the way to court. Right now, I do not have the mental capacity.

Your right about him getting some kind of contact if he takes it to court I chose to allow limited contact to avoid court ordered contact but I had no real proof of wrongdoing and you do im in the current position that his contact has been reduced by him till its negligible

If there isn’ta court order in place then he can turn up unsupervised at school, pick the DC up and take them. Let it go to court...

@Nivealove

Why do you have no issues with a physically violent man having contact with his children

Of course I had issues that's why he didn't see DC for three years and after the assault, I immediately pressed charges and did a non-mol. However, over the past two years, DC has been asking for his dad and the probation officer has been sharing with me ex's progress (e.g. attendance etc). I also made it very clear to court that if ex wanted contact with DC, he will have to do the leg work and initiate contact.

I have met other woman and have read countless and countless of threads where the perpetrators are seeking contact with their DC's and 9/10 the ex's always get contact of some kind. At this stage, I have some level of control. If we approach Cafcass or after the risk assessment , he is deemed not suitable or there's some outstanding issues to address then it can go all the way to court. Right now, I do not have the mental capacity.

I think you’re mistakenly attributing a level of control here in this scenario that you don’t in fact have

Realistically there is no way he will endure supervised contact in a centre being assessed for long and will take it to court anyway.I say hold your ground as otherwise when he does take it to court - which he will - you might look as though oxidising him was more pressing that safeguarding your children when for three years you felt it prudent to do so

Doing some courses doesn’t necessarily remove the risk.

I absolutely understand the feeling of being overwhelmed about the whole thing with very food personal experience but it’s my considered view that whatever you’d exceed to agree to will quickly not be enough and you will yourself in court anyway.
The minute your wise domestic abuse mediation will be impossible too.

Pacifying not oxidising
The minute you mention not wise

Random typos

@JustKeepSwimmingJust

If there isn’ta court order in place then he can turn up unsupervised at school, pick the DC up and take them. Let it go to court...

I don't understand. But this can be agreed beforehand and ex hasn't mentioned school pick ups. Plus his solicitor is applying for a care order of some kind. Sigh, before deciding anything, let me just get legal advice.

If he’s on the birth certificate he has as much right as you do. There’s nothing stopping him from just turning up at school to see the child.

Personally I would let it go to court so there can be proper assessments around him and proper safeguarding for your child.

You keep saying your not mentally fit enough to go through court but unfortunately that doesn’t matter when it comes to protecting your child.

You don’t just get to say supervised contact that’s not up to you and he can turn around and tell you to sod off and take it to court anyway

If you don’t have a CAO sealed by the court then your ex absolutely can go to school and collect a child he has PR for.

By considering what concessions allow the norm to prevail you are opening as much of a Pandora’s box as if you let him go to court. Without legally enforceable paperwork a school is powerless

See a solicitor

Realistically there is no way he will endure supervised contact in a centre being assessed for long and will take it to court anyway.

I don't know that yet. I haven't given the proposal to the solicitor. If he doesn't agree then it goes to court I suppose.

I say hold your ground as otherwise when he does take it to court - which he will - you might look as though oxidising him was more pressing that safeguarding your children when for three years you felt it prudent to do so

I don't know what you mean by oxidising him. However, the safeguarding of my children are my highest priority and I'm sure the judge will understand that I did not want this to go all the way to court. I will seek legal advice anyhow but I would
try my best that this does not go all the way to court.

@Nivealove

Realistically there is no way he will endure supervised contact in a centre being assessed for long and will take it to court anyway.

I don't know that yet. I haven't given the proposal to the solicitor. If he doesn't agree then it goes to court I suppose.

I say hold your ground as otherwise when he does take it to court - which he will - you might look as though oxidising him was more pressing that safeguarding your children when for three years you felt it prudent to do so

I don't know what you mean by oxidising him. However, the safeguarding of my children are my highest priority and I'm sure the judge will understand that I did not want this to go all the way to court. I will seek legal advice anyhow but I would
try my best that this does not go all the way to court.

I corrected that to pacifying

If you have safeguarding concerns this has to be dealt with in court with professional assessment and in conjunction with what has happened

If you don’t have a CAO sealed by the court then your ex absolutely can go to school and collect a child he has PR for

I assumed his solicitor was going to send off our requests to a Judge of some sort, then they look at our proposal and decide the next cause. This is why I need a solicitor. This is very confusing and his solicitor was careful not to give anything away.