Can we take their crap off of our roof?!

[JohnnyMarr]

As the title outlines really...

My elderly mum is endeavouring to sell a garage. She's had a fair bit of interest, but we're experiencing a bit of an issue in that the garage (which is in a block, if this makes a difference) has a flat roof and the people living in the flat adjacent to it have taken it upon themselves to turn said roof into some kind of patio garden area and have installed garden furniture, a washing line, a barbecue and various other miscellaneous paraphernalia!

The title deeds make it perfectly clear that they don't have any legal right to do this, yet despite multiple (perfectly civil) conversations and subsequent written requests to either A) remove the aforementioned crap or B) Discuss an arrangement whereby we come to some acceptable agreement regarding maintenance and repairs to the roof they have failed to engage with either alternative.

My mum's personal circumstances dictate that she really needs to sell the garage and she's becoming increasingly distraught by the current BBQ debacle - whilst I obviously appreciate that this isn't a long term solution, are we nevertheless within our rights to just stick a ladder up there and remove their stuff given their prolonged refusal to cooperate?

I'd also really appreciate any other advice. Solicitors are involved but taking forever and costing a fortune my mum really can't afford until the garage sells so stuck in a bit of a Catch 22

Can I just say, that I am surprised people are saying patio doors need planning, or even building regs.

When we have investigated doing things to our house, I am amazed at just how much you can do without any planning building etc.

One thing which I would consider is whether they have damaged the roof.
If they have, then a letter asking them for cost of repairs, listing out the repairs needed, due to people walking on the roof, with photos of all the damage done, and their stuff on roof and patio doors, threaten to take them to the small claims court etc.

The garage is in a block, you wouldnt just be able to make one of them pitched, what about the drainage and guttering for all the others.

Yeah, that's a very good point!

@steppemum

Can I just say, that I am surprised people are saying patio doors need planning, or even building regs.

When we have investigated doing things to our house, I am amazed at just how much you can do without any planning building etc.

One thing which I would consider is whether they have damaged the roof.
If they have, then a letter asking them for cost of repairs, listing out the repairs needed, due to people walking on the roof, with photos of all the damage done, and their stuff on roof and patio doors, threaten to take them to the small claims court etc.

But flats don't have permitted development rights and most things actually need building regulations. Permissions are certainly required here.

@JohnnyMarr

Thank you all so much for your responses so far, we've genuinely tried to approach this reasonably to achieve some kind of amicable conclusion but they do indeed appear to be CFs!!

@LakeShoreD - Totally! We've explained to them that the roof isn't intended to be load-bearing and the potential H&S implications, and part of the reason for us needing them to vacate is so that we can assess and repair any damage that's been caused by their unlawful use!

@TooBigForMyBoots - I take your point, and in an ideal world I'd absolutely leave this in the solicitor's hands, I work a 6 day week, am a single parent already involved in a ridiculously prolonged and time consuming wrangle with the CMS/ICE and this is an added drama I could really do without! Financially though it's not really feasible for my mum to pay her solicitor to write letters which, to date, have met with total inaction and I'm obviously concerned for her and, frankly, averagely pissed off at the CF nature of it all!

@Muchmorethan - Their lounge is on a level with the roof of the garage and they've had a patio door fitted to access it!!

They've had patio doors fitted to access it! WTAF!!!!

I'm gobsmacked - CF's

Just remove it op I doubt they can do anything

Wow, I really wasn't expecting this to garner this much interest, but genuinely appreciate all the advice, and also the fairly unanimous outrage on my mum's behalf!

Following the general consensus of CFery, coupled with a pretty disastrous (but unrelated) 24 hours, I decided enough was enough and paid them a visit on my way to work this morning to inform them that as they were continuing to use the roof illegally we would be forcibly removing their stuff over the weekend. Subsequently my mum received a text stating that next time someone hammered on their door in the morning and "threatened" them they would be calling the police. If they found me threatening god help them when see OH's phizog peering through their lounge door on Saturday morning!

As if this weren't ludicrous enough my mum also received a letter today claiming that they have prescriptive rights and therefore it is, in fact, ourselves who have no right of access to the garage roof

Oh, and in my magnanimity I've also emailed the planning department outlining our concerns for their safety
'

Well done to you for taking action!

Prescriptive rights they've clearly been doing a bit of googling. Exactly how long have they been using it for then?

As if this weren't ludicrous enough my mum also received a letter today claiming that they have prescriptive rights and therefore it is, in fact, ourselves who have no right of access to the garage roof

A quick Google shows that for prescriptive rights "The use must have been exercised continuously and without any interruption for at least 20 years". I assume this isn't the case??

They really are brazen CFs aren't they?!!

Good on you for taking action.

What complete CF and who can google. Good call about planning because their sure not gave have any type of council permission to install those doors.

Btw, not relevant here, but gaining a prescriptive easement doesn't stop the owner of the land enjoying it themselves, so I think they are suggesting adverse possession which is also ludicrous. A little knowledge really can be dangerous.

What does prescriptive rights mean? I can’t believe the CFery

No serious suggestions from me but really this is CFery of the highest order.

I am sure you could find some helpful local MNers who would be willing to go around with balaclavas on and empty the roof on your behalf whilst you and your DM alibi yourselves somewhere else

You could also fit an alarm to the garage. This one only costs £16, is battery operated and has a 100db siren if motion is detected within 12 metres (you have 10 seconds to enter a PIN code to stop the alarm going off).

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0781ZTCS8/?ascsubtag=1407347&tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Checking in for the weekend update🤪
Well done on challenging them OP, do you have a lawyer friend who can be help word a response to their ridiculous letter?

Btw, not relevant here, but gaining a prescriptive easement doesn't stop the owner of the land enjoying it themselves, so I think they are suggesting adverse possession which is also ludicrous. A little knowledge really can be dangerous.

Does anybody else remember the thread from a couple of years ago where the OP inherited a house and the incumbent neighbours were determined to buy the large plot of land to the side of the house?

They sent letters ostensibly from a (non-existent) solicitor, full of pathetic made-up Latin, in an attempt to 'prove' in 'law' that OP had no choice but to sell them the land at a ridiculously low price!

Take the roof off

That would be my dream solution ygp

received a letter today claiming that they have prescriptive rights

Actually maybe you could use their own stupidity against them by using their letter as confirmation by them in writing that they've been using your roof without permission and take them to small claims for the cost of roof repairs

@JohnnyMarr

Wow, I really wasn't expecting this to garner this much interest, but genuinely appreciate all the advice, and also the fairly unanimous outrage on my mum's behalf!

Following the general consensus of CFery, coupled with a pretty disastrous (but unrelated) 24 hours, I decided enough was enough and paid them a visit on my way to work this morning to inform them that as they were continuing to use the roof illegally we would be forcibly removing their stuff over the weekend. Subsequently my mum received a text stating that next time someone hammered on their door in the morning and "threatened" them they would be calling the police. If they found me threatening god help them when see OH's phizog peering through their lounge door on Saturday morning!

As if this weren't ludicrous enough my mum also received a letter today claiming that they have prescriptive rights and therefore it is, in fact, ourselves who have no right of access to the garage roof

Oh, and in my magnanimity I've also emailed the planning department outlining our concerns for their safety
'

. So maybe you should check whether they needed planning permission for the door onto the roof? I bet it's not building regs compliant

He doesn't drive a black Ranger does he?

Wowsers. I love the idea of using their letter to lodge a small claims claim for the redress costs I’d be firmly on the retribution path after that last update!

Have they been using the roof for the last 20 years without anyone noticing?

If not then they don't really have prescriptive rights at all.

I'd definitely be removing their possessions after sending a torts notice.

Another idea might be to attach very thin corrugated sheeting with the undulations flowing down the roof so water could fall off. This would mean if they try to use the roof the corrugated panels would crack and be most unpleasant to stand on. Id get a fragile roof notice and get it painted in anti vandal paint.
Small outlay for getting it sold.

I realise we have nearly two months to go, but I believe we may have found the winner of the CF of the year award with this one!

I'd just install anti pigeon spikes all along the roof in strips. After hurling their crap off it. The cheek! Here's a thing about "Prescriptive Rights"

Someone has to have been using something for more than 20 years.
www.pla.org.uk/2017/08/prove-prescriptive-rights-evidential-presumptions-article-looking-prescriptive-easements-evidence-rebuttal-presumptions/#:~:text=A%20party%20claiming%20a%20prescriptive,been%20%E2%80%9Cas%20of%20right%E2%80%9D.