Adverse possession

[strawberryshortcake1]

Our neighbours have given it large for a long time about how they have adverse possession of a strip of land between our properties, we know this to not be true, they've never applied for it with Land Registry and we would have rejected if they had applied. They sent us a legal letter months ago threatening to take us to court, but never followed through, does the fact that they have not followed through mean that they know they don't have a case? anyone know how these things work?

Have they fenced off the property in order to exclude others from it? Who is the owner of the land, is it on your deeds?

No it's never been fenced off, title deeds and boundary survey which we commissioned show it as belonging to us although our understanding is that title deeds have a thing called a general boundaries rule which muddies it a bit. Our house is 300 years old and theirs is 1960's, there are old markers like a pipe and a historic rose arch which marked the original boundary which are still in situ which the boundary surveyor used to take measurements.

If they have not fenced off the land to exclude all other users then they are not in possession. In addition they woukd need to demonstrate that they had been in possession of the land for 20 years.To quote the government website "Adverse possession requires factual possession of the land, with the necessary intention to possess and without the owner’s consent."
Clearly they are not in possession and their threat of legal action is nonsense.

I have oversimplified the position for the sake of brevity, but it is still correct and you have nothing to worry about.

Thank you that is so reassuring as they are so very aggressive towards us and have managed to convince police too that they have adverse possession. Are you a surveyor or land expert?

You should get your own legal advice and follow that

It'll save you stress in the long run. MNers can't give you actual legal advice that can bee relied on, only can point you in right direction

Maybe if you say what county you are in, there might be MNers who know of good solicitors specialising in land issues in your area

Not a lawyer but can you take pictures that prove the date you took them that show there’s no fence (non tech savvy me would date stamp them, print out and send them registered post to myself and keep letter unopened until needed but others may be able to suggest a cheaper/quicker alternative). Also can you report their aggression to the Police, just so it’s on record.

The “legal” letter from them just means they paid a lawyer to write it, that’s all.

My DH is a a chartered surveyor and we have had the exact same dispute with a neighbour trying a ridiculous adverse possession claim. This is a civil matter and what the police think is neither here nor there. Have a look at the website Garden law, you will see plenty of examples of refuted adverse possession claims. The legal letter is a bluff. A solicitor will write any kind of letter if you pay them. If they have not occupied the land to the exclusion of all others, openly and without force, then their claim has failed immediately. Look at the land registry website there is excellent information on adverse possession. A quick read of it will reassure you. Does your house hold insurance cover legal protection? Do you have a mortgage? The mortgage holder would also oppose an adverse possession claim as it would reduce the value of the property that they hold a mortgage on.

Adverse possession isn’t what people think it is. You have to have had use of the land, excluding others and then you try to register it. At which point the land registry notifies the owner (if it’s registered land) and they then say “err, nope, it’s mine”

Go and sit in it now

I agree with a previous poster about seeking legal advice. But don't worry, your title is secure.

Have a look at this : www.gov.uk/government/publications/adverse-possession-of-registered-land/practice-guide-4-adverse-possession-of-registered-land

That will answers many of your questions.

Thanks for all the comments which have made me feel better, yes we are taking legal advice, it has been so incredibly nasty with the neighbours and they are incredibly aggressive, we have had two lots of mediation already, twice through the police, both failed, so it's now going to proper legal mediation.
Bit concerned about the comments about solicitors will write anything you want them to, that is very much the case on their side, and their letters are so full of contradictions and holes we feel like a family member is writing them not a proper solicitor.

Good that you’re seeking legal advice.

I always like to double-check things so definitely get a current print out from the Land Registry (a few pounds I understand) and also privately check that the solicitor who “wrote” the letter is named on the appropriate professional register (don’t know what it is called but surely there is one!).

I noticed a few years ago that someone down the road has knocked down a garden wall and had it rebuilt a few feet back on a bit of council land and he’s on the parish planning committee, so there are chancers everywhere!

Have you downloaded any old google street view and google map images for your records. It doesn’t sound like you need it though.
INFO HERE

www.sra.org.uk/consumers/register/
You can check the solicitor here.

They clearly changers. As I said before, they can't claim adverse possession of a piece of land that they have not occupied. They need to do this openly and without force for a minimum of 10 years to even make a claim. You would then be able to oppose it as the title holders. I am concerned that the police are getting involved in a civil matter, there is nothing to mediate, they are trespassers. The only thing the police need to do is protect you from threats and violence.

Have they actually taken your land? Do you go into it?

Just go in and put your garden furniture in it.

As others have said, they need to have taken possession of the land without your permission (or the previous owner's permission if relevant) for either the last 10 or 12 years depending on if you bought your property before or after 1990.

Can I ask, when did you buy your property?

If you bought it at any time from 1990 then it will be registered with the Land Registry and they would notify you if there is any claim for adverse possession. I think that you sort of implied this was the case in your OP:-

"they've never applied for it with Land Registry and we would have rejected if they had applied"

It seems as though you have a "neighbour from hell".

Frankly I would ignore them as much as possible and/or move away.

This is an excellent explanation f adverse possession:-

www.gov.uk/government/publications/adverse-possession-of-registered-land/practice-guide-4-adverse-possession-of-registered-land

The meaning of adverse possession is that:-

"Factual possession signifies an appropriate degree of physical control. It must be a single and [exclusive] possession... The question what acts constitute a sufficient degree of exclusive physical control must depend on the circumstances, in particular the nature of the land and the manner in which land of that nature is commonly used or enjoyed … Everything must depend on the particular circumstances, but broadly, I think what must be shown as constituting factual possession is that the alleged possessor has been dealing with the land in question as an occupying owner might have been expected to deal with it and that no one else has done so."

and also:-

"Where the land was previously open ground, fencing is strong evidence of factual possession, but it is neither indispensable nor conclusive."

Have attached a picture, hope it come through.

Solicitor's firm is genuine, but the letters have got more and more amaterishly written and we suspect a daughter works for the firm, not as a solicitor, and is cobbling the letters up, something that slipped out one, all very odd.

We have been here since 2017, we have since found out the previous two residents had problems too. I cannot emphasise enough how verbally aggressive, him physically aggressive, manipulative, narcissistic and gaslighting they are. We have had two failed mediations with them. Second one was horrendous, face to face mediation and they used it as an opportunity to abuse, mediator was useless and gave up. Police involvement has been horrendous and if I told you what's gone on you would think I was making it up or a troll.

It’s your land, can you fence it off at your boundary?

Solicitor's firm is genuine, but the letters have got more and more amaterishly written and we suspect a daughter works for the firm, not as a solicitor, and is cobbling the letters up, something that slipped out one, all very odd

Wouldn't it be dreadful if one of those letters was sent to the practice manager or one of the named partners?

If someone is misusing a solicitors name and headed paper, and it isn't coming from a solicitor in the firm, then when your solicitors reply to their solicitors, it'll all come to light.

If it's their unqualified daughter who works for a firm, Iis doing so, or even if they are a solicitor but the firm isn't engaged to act for them, then she could lose her job over it. I don't think solicitor firm would be happy with this at all. Pretty sure it'd be misconduct to falsify letters stating they are acting for neighbours if solicitor form isn't.

It'll be interesting to hear what your solicitors say.

@Whereismumhiding3

If someone is misusing a solicitors name and headed paper, and it isn't coming from a solicitor in the firm, then when your solicitors reply to their solicitors, it'll all come to light.

If it's their unqualified daughter who works for a firm, Iis doing so, or even if they are a solicitor but the firm isn't engaged to act for them, then she could lose her job over it. I don't think solicitor firm would be happy with this at all. Pretty sure it'd be misconduct to falsify letters stating they are acting for neighbours if solicitor form isn't.

It'll be interesting to hear what your solicitors say.

This.

There is a complaints procedure.

www.lawsociety.org.uk/en/public/for-public-visitors/using-a-solicitor/complain-about-a-solicitor

If you know the daughter's name, you can check if she's on the Solicitors Register.

www.sra.org.uk/consumers/register/

Well that's where it's really confusing, they are a bona fide registered law firm, I think they are through their home insurance. But the last two/three letters have been unsigned (no name at bottom) and are just SO amateur in appearance, unless the standard of solicitors is just going down LOL. Last time we mentioned it to our solicitor she said they were coming from bona fide solicitor, something just doesn't smell right to me though.