Mum died - stepfather not mentioning a will

[Lollyneenah]

Hello all,
I wonder if you could advise please.
My mum has passed away very unexpectedly and young 😞 she re married 7 years ago, and lived in a house owned by her husband. She worked full time and paid into a pension but would not have had savings more than a few grand.

She gave my step dad very specific funeral instructions during conversation, which we have carried out to the letter. However, when the subject of her pension was raised by the funeral director today (he was telling us about death certificates) my mums husband became very cagey and cut the subject short.

I have no doubt that my mums husband loved her very much, however I don't believe that during this conversation that she had with him, that she didn't tell him she would want to make sure her grandchild had a small sum each.

My mum had 5 children and 7 grandchildren.
None of us need the money at all, and neither does my mums husband. However it feels like a huge betrayal of her trust if he is withholding.

He says she did not leave a written will which I believe.

Is there any way to establish this?

I would be fine to accept that there is no inheritance for the grand children, just feels very dishonest.

I should add. The house is owned outright by mums husband and I'm not interested in this at all.
Mum paid the bills and did the food shopping as her contribution, he is retired.

No will = money goes to husband. If she wanted to make gifts to grandkids then that is what a will is for. Sorry for your loss.

Hey

Firstly I'm so sorry for your loss :-( I hope you have a good support network around you!!

If your mum had a pension I would call them and ask what the terms of the release were. Some pensions have express terms contained whereby the funds will automatically go to the spouse (married partner).

When someone died intestate (without a will) the first £270k goes to the spouse and then the remainder is divided in 2. Half to the spouse and half to the children (you).

If she has any personal possessions they automatically go to the spouse too!

It doesn't sound like your mums estate exceeds £270k so likely everything will go to him.

Xxx

I’m afraid that if she wished to make gifts to grandchildren she would have needed to make a will. Sorry, OP, it is upsetting

I’m so sorry that you’ve lost your mum, what a horrible shock for you.
Unfortunately as she seems to have a relatively low value ‘estate’ so to speak and without a will, and therefore no specific instruction, everything would go to your mums husband.

Sorry for you loss OP

There is often an 'expression of wish' form for a pension where you say where you would like any benefits to be paid (if applicable) after your death. The trustees of the scheme can override this if they feel it is appropriate, however it doesn't seem as if anyone was financially dependent on your mother at the time of her death.

As for the verbal wishes - I can't see any way that you could check those. Personally, I have only known people inherit from their grandparents if their parent has died first (so they are getting what their parent would have received). I'm also very surprised that the funeral director raised the matter of her pension, I've not come across that before and don't see why they would?

If it was a private pension, I believe they have a form you fill out to say who you wish that money to go to in event of your death.

My DM's pension from working for the NHS was always for me to the beneficiary in the event of her death, not my stepfather.

If you know who the pension was with, you could enquire about it

Sorry to hear your mum died. Unfortunately if there is no will, which you say you believe, then rules of intestacy apply. Depending on where you live, you and your siblings may be entitled to part of her estate. When mum died she didn't have a will so dad got 2 thirds and us children got 1 third to split (not England).

Maybe she did make a will. Maybe he found it and tore it up and is now saying there isn't one. Whether she did or not, searches are supposed to be carried out to make sure. A solicitor will advise you.

Surely if they were married the house was half hers? So of the value was high enough, some would go to you. Maybe that's way he's cagey.

Sorry for the typos.

when the subject of her pension was raised by the funeral director today (he was telling us about death certificates) my mums husband became very cagey and cut the subject short.

I'm not surprised!!! The deceased's pension is absolutely NO business of the funeral director and it was highly inappropriate of him to raise it. No wonder SD froze him off.

@HotPenguin

Surely if they were married the house was half hers? So of the value was high enough, some would go to you. Maybe that's way he's cagey.

Yes, as they were married it became a marital asset, even if her husband owned it himself solely before marriage.

But upon his wife’s death it reverts back to him as it was a joint asset. You have to set things up specifically and legally if you want to pass on your ‘share’ to anyone other than your spouse. That doesn’t seem likely in this case.

@HotPenguin

Surely if they were married the house was half hers? So of the value was high enough, some would go to you. Maybe that's way he's cagey.

No, it isn't half hers. It belongs to SD who is still alive.

I agree with PPs @Lollyneenah - & this is why you ( one ) needs to make a will

I think you are in the situation where either SD will say - no will but I will give late wife's children a bequest even though no will , or - here is her jewellery , bits and pieces , please come and choose. Or he won't. Either way legally - his choice.

As to her pension ( if a work related one sometimes you can say who you want the death benefit to go to )

Whichever way you will get the measure of the man but honestly - without having sorted things out in a will - you are reliant on him

I knew someone who got married late in lifer - did not redo will and house went to new husband who when DM died did one of those equity release schemes - not a penny left to children / grandchildren . But again , sort it out legally.

I am sorry for your loss and I hope you can get some mementos at least from your mother for DCs DGCs

www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will

Intestacy rules are here. Who gets what depends partly on how much there is.

This would not include joint accounts (which go to the survivor).

Surely pension and Will are 2 completely separate things

I'm sorry for your loss @Lollyneenah. You can search to see if there is a will. It's costs £1.50 but I think worth it for your own peace of mind. www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

If she only had a few thousand she probably didn't think it worthwhile to make will. I agree the subject of the deceased persons pension is no business whatsoever of a funeral director. I am very surprised they should even mention the subject.

@HotPenguin

Surely if they were married the house was half hers? So of the value was high enough, some would go to you. Maybe that's way he's cagey.

No, absolutely not and the answer from NoSquirrels is wrong. Marriage does not alter the ownership of assets. If he owned the house before they were married, he continued to own it when they were married. However, if they had divorced it would have been regarded as a marital asset and gone into the pot to be divided between them.

As others have said, if there was no will and no significant assets, it all goes to her husband. If she had a private pension, what happens to that is almost certainly down to the trustees of the pension fund. She may have filled in an expression of wish form saying what she wanted, but that is not binding on the trustees.

Thank you all that's confirmed what I thought legally speaking.

As for funeral director mentioning her pension - he was using it as an example of how many death certificates is a good number to order.
None of us have organised a funeral before, or had a close death, so while we are very fortunate in that regard, it's meant that we are trying to stumble through it all as best we can.
Thank you very much for the advice and kind words

With or without a will, a pension will only pay those with a financial dependency, children who are still minors, husband or cohabiting partner (subject to various checks and conditions) and usually sits outside of the estate.

Having a pension won't mean she had anything to pass to DGC, regardless of whether there's a will.

I've just been through this for DH. As (his own DC nor DGC) are adults, not in full time education, there's nothing for them and the bit I'm due comes directly to me separate to probate.

Sorry for your loss.

Pensions are separate to wills & the estate. It would be extremely unusual for a pension to make provision for grandchildren. Some private pensions don't even have spousal provision or provision for children. No one on here can tell you about your mum's employer's pension as each pension scheme sets its own Ts and Cs.

If she hasn't left a will then you will be reliant on the integrity of your step father to follow through on any wishes for her grand children.