Advice on stopping child contact in the interim with an order currently a place

[Protectivemama0999]

Posting in legal for advice.
Daughter has supervised contact in a contact centre. Multiple issues with the centre including ignoring her when she says she's scared, not providing reports, allowing her to be left unsupervised in the bathrooms with him.. I'm at my wits end. A Marac referral was made earlier this year, as a result of it a couple of weeks ago the duty health visiting team contacted me and asked if DD and I were safe, they strongly recommended I terminate contact, seek further legal advice and take the matter back to court. They felt very strongly and arranged for an emergency home visit to take place, as well as this I was visited by a police officer from the domestic abuse team in my county.
The home visit consisted of the hv gently asking DD about her father, the only word I can use to describe her reaction was that she was completely and utterly distraught.. She told the HV she's scared, she doesn't want to go anymore and then started crying and hid behind me, she wouldn't show her face for about 15 minutes and kept saying "mummy, keep my safe"
The HV said her reaction was very clear and that they stand by their advice. She's providing a write up from the home visit and emailing it to my solicitor. My daughters childcare establishment have also been documenting absolutely everything and said they would provide independent evidence to show what they have noticed. They have reported that DD has told them her father hurts her and she's scared and he's loud and that he shouts at her and mummy :-(
The final thing which has tipped me over the edge tonight is whilst getting DD ready for bed this evening, she had the mother of all melt downs and wouldn't let me cuddle her, she hid in the corner and told me to go away and was trembling and said she was scared, I told her she was safe and there's nothing to be scared of and what was she scared of, she pointed at me and said you mummy, scared you go. :( :( my heart is completely breaking for my little girl. If you've read my other threads you know what she has been through.
On the basis of this, what is likely to happen if I breach the order and stop taking her. I feel so stuck, if I breach the order I run the risk of looking obstructive and if I continue to take her despite professional advice and recommendation then I am effectively saying I have no issues and think she's perfectly safe. Cafcass also said he shouldn't be having contact in the interim. I've got an urgent call with my solicitor tomorrow.. But I'm scared, I really am. As long as I continue to take her, I'm damaging her more and more. I'm her safe person and she thinks I'm going to leave her. I'm so heart-broken for her. Is the advice and recommendation from the health visitor enough weight to stop contact and go back to court and ask for contact to stop in the interim? I've taken her to all but two sessions which were missed due to illness. I'm court ordered to pay half of the cost of contact, I've paid half of every session to date. I drive several hours to take her there and back. I've done everything I could but it's now massively affecting her and I'm at a complete loss.

@Munknown90

I feel like I can completely relate to this

What did you do.

Double check with your solicitor that this is the case for you but I was told by my solicit that my job is to facilitate and encourage cobra t but not to force it if the child doesn't want to go.

I am so sorry that you and your daughter are in this situation. Sending hugs

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I recognise the behaviour you're describing. By the sounds of it your DD is very young - maybe 3 or 4? My daughter was petrified at that age that I would leave, she would be taken away or I would die. All you can do is reassure over and over that you are going nowhere, you will never leave her and she is safe with you. That may mean getting up 10 times a night as she ''checks'' your still there, or whatever - each child is different. Keep reassuring her, be her 'safe' place no matter what.

Having been there a long time ago, my advice is do nothing until you speak to your lawyer. Your DD's behavior is screaming out that contact should stop, but the fact of the matter is the courts will often do just about anything to keep some form of contact (the ridiculous notion that any contact is better than none). You need hard, objective evidence (which it sounds like you are getting) and a court to make a decision that protects your child. Your solicitor will be able to advise if any emergency steps can be taken to suspend the interim order or at least getting a hearing sooner. It's concerning the court ordered interim contact against Cafcass recommendation. Are you having a section 7?

No legal advice but just wanted to send you a HH. You sound like an amazing Mum. Your DD sounds genuinely traumatised, is she getting any counselling? It's awful that the contact centre are not protecting her

If you have the HV advice in writing then terminate contact and go back to court.

If CAFCASS have advised against it why is it taking place?

You have enough to show you're trying to do the right thing by your daughter and not to just trying to thwart contact.

There has been nothing to suggest the contact that he is has been distressing- and a part from your issues with the play park and the toilet, there has never been any evidence of abuse at the centre. You've already said the centre feel that you have caused issues and they are concerned regarding you- rightly or wrongly, and their report has not backed the concerns you have. I'd be very careful about breaking contact, which is supervised, with no evidence. It very much could look like parental alienation on your part- your daughter has not seen her dad unless it's been supervised since she was little more than a baby. If you want to alter the current arrangement, by all means go back to court- but I'd think very carefully about stopping the supervised contact without court approval.

I mean this in the nicest possible way but why are you asking the advice of random people on the internet when you have a trained professional solicitor to advise you. Please talk to them for advice - that is why you have them.

@SD1978

There has been nothing to suggest the contact that he is has been distressing- and a part from your issues with the play park and the toilet, there has never been any evidence of abuse at the centre. You've already said the centre feel that you have caused issues and they are concerned regarding you- rightly or wrongly, and their report has not backed the concerns you have. I'd be very careful about breaking contact, which is supervised, with no evidence. It very much could look like parental alienation on your part- your daughter has not seen her dad unless it's been supervised since she was little more than a baby. If you want to alter the current arrangement, by all means go back to court- but I'd think very carefully about stopping the supervised contact without court approval.

I understand what you are saying. However, if you read above, they have been allowing her to be unsupervised with him, there are other such things he has done which I can't say on here as they are outing. How is it parental alienation when I continue to take her? her Nursery have reported significant changes in her behaviour and mood when she is following contact. It's not just me. You talk as if you know the full background, but you don't. The contact centre have allowed things to take place which shouldn't be taking place. The HV has professionally recommended I stop contact and stands by her recommendation. If I go against that, I'm effectively saying it's all fine.

I dont know the full background- o my what you've said on other posts- and I don't deny all you want is the best for your daughter, really I don't. The accusation (potentially) of parental alienation would be if you stopped the visits without the courts agreement- especially as you seem to have several concerns with the contact centre and their supervision, which you e said they e never addressed, that's all.

So when she says Daddy hurts her do you think that's happening at contact? Because the bit where she says Daddy shouts at mummy isn't happening then is it? She sounds a very frightened and confused little girl and I understand how you must worry about her. If your solicitor says to back to court then I would do that but I wouldn't suggest stopping court ordered contact that according to the contact centre has been going well. ( or at least not badly)

I've spoken to my solicitor and she said that if we get what the HV has recorded in writing, on the basis of that it is a professional recommendation. It really doesn't matter if SUPERVISED CONTACT is seemingly going well, there is trauma there that she is dealing with and it's now starting to come out. I was shocked how distraught she was yesterday and wasn't expecting that at all.
Cafcass initially recommended that contact in the interim was not safe, it would put DD in a very awkward position if findings were made of abuse and not accepted (he doesn't accepted them) and contact would not be in her best interests. The Judge at the FHDRA ordered contact to commence immediately without the review of all the evidence and also without hearing from the cafcass officer or explaining why he departed from their recommendation. Cafcass then wrote back to the court on the receipt of the court order received for interim contact and asked the judge to suspend immediately, an emergency hearing was held of the court's own motion, I felt my position had been hugely pre-judged as some contact had taken place and felt pressured to offer supervised in contact rather than hide behind the recommendation from cafcass, we had the officer in our hearing firmly standing by the fact there should be no contact in the interim, the fact it will place DD in a very awkward position and long term, it may not be in her best interests. We had a different judge this time, he said he couldn't ignore what cafcass was saying, however recognised there had been some contact and that I was throwing him a lifeline by offering supervised contact and he couldn't understand why father wasn't grabbing it with both hands.
So you see, I did not obstruct contact in anyway, I was the one who suggested supervised contact, I haven't alienated my daughter, I haven't obstructed contact, I've done everything I can do facilitate it from being dragged there on my birthday, on mothers day because he refused to reschedule for an alternative date - I went. Now it's starting to profusely affect her, if I carry on taking her, then I am effectively saying I have no issues with anything and yet again my position is prejudged.

So is your solicitor is going to take it back to court? I think this would be.the best scenario, and then the hv, cafcass and contact centre reports can all be looked at and a decision made in the best interest of your daughter. How old was she when you moved away from her dad?

@Protectivemama0999 I'm in a similar position to you (I know this post is old) I hope all went well for you.