Legal advice for a house left in a will

[HouseQuestion12345]

My partner and his brothers were left a property many years ago when their father passed away. The value of the property was split 4 ways between the 3 brothers and the fathers partner at the time. It was stipulated in the will that she could continue living at the property until she either
-remarried
-died
-ceased to be permanently reside at the property
-until she ceased to pay all the outgoing bills / keep the property in good repair.
This has always caused some tension- the brothers have families of their own and need the money from this property to be able to move on in life, it has also been very difficult for any of them to get closure from the death of their father knowing that she is living in what was the family childhood home.

If they were to seek legal advice regarding this, what type of solicitor/lawer would they need to talk to?
What are the chances of them being able to get this woman out of the property/buy her out etc?

I have been with my partner a long time and this has always caused him a lot of distress. It isn't just that they want the money (whilst that would be nice) , it's the closure that goes along with it. I think it has effected them all quite badly to know she is living it up in their childhood home whilst they have all struggled a lot financially over the years. They haven't had access to any of their dads possessions. Lots of childhood pictures are in the house and generally it seems there is a lot of bad feeling around it all. It seems it would be best if the house were sold and everyone were able to move on but I have no idea how they would achieve that.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

So to clarify, she is still living there, within the terms of the will?

Unless she agrees to leave she is perfectly entitled to live there. They’re better off than they would have been if she just been left the property outright.

This is going to sound harsh, I have rewritten it several times and it still reads really harsh

But are you asking how they can circumvent their dad's will, to evict a (presumably) fairly elderly women from her home?

Sorry but this was the fathers property to do with as he wished.. and his wishes were made clear in his will.. and the terms of his will should be respected. He obviously cared a great deal for her and wanted to take care of her after his death. Presumably he was aware of the adult childrens circumstances, but had his reasons for making the provisions he did.
And if she is 'living it up' ( whatever you mean by that !! ) then she is perfectly entitled to do so. The situation is not her fault or of her making.

This sounds like she has a life interest in the property and if that's the case It's a difficult one to unravel. It's not a question of valuing the property but valuing the gift left to you FIL's partner in the Will. It's a job for a Private Client lawyer, a contentious probate lawyer and an actuary. It will involve challenging the Will, it's expensive and will probably not result in what you want.

Make sure the property has been properly protected at the Land Registry and then leave it. You don't want to involve yourself in this. Its bound to messy and no one will come out of this well.

yes the will stipulates she can live there until any of the above happen.

I think they need to speak to a solicitor or lawyer even if the advice is "there is nothing you can do"
They keep going over the same ground speculating what if's and its incredibly detrimental. Whilst I understand they are better off than if their dad had not left them the property, its quite frustrating to all of them to be struggling knowing they have a substantial amount of money tied up in a house that could be being used to make their lives a lot easier now. It's easy as an outsider to say they are lucky but as it stands it is no use to them.

They should take comfort knowing that their dads wishes have been followed through.

Anyone who says this is about 'closure' is a liar.

It's money and nothing more.

They need to let this go. She’s living there according to their fathers wishes. I doubt they’ll find a solicitor who’d even touch this with a barge pole, and quite rightly so. I suggest your dp sees a counsellor if he’s still struggling with the emotional impact of his dfs death.

Stop going on about closure - it's just about money isn't it???

'That woman' was their fathers wife and she has every right to live in that house as long as she wants to. Grown men sitting about discussing how they can make an old woman leave her home so they can get their hands on the cash is incredibly distasteful...

It seems it would be best if the house were sold and everyone were able to move on but I have no idea how they would achieve that.

Best for who? Is her Quarter enough to buy a decent house for herself? In the same area with the same friends, family etc?

Is the house really worth that much that it will take the sins from 'struggling to everything being rosy?

Ffs your dh and his siblings should be ashamed. What would their father think, turfing out the woman he loved, onto the streets in her old age because they're all a bit broke. Greedy selfish bastards.

Sorry OP but this is about money and nothing more, you DP and he's family should be ashamed, there dad obviously wanted he's wife to be taken care off and rightly so.
They are lucky he didn't leave it all to he's wife, they have to wait until the terms are broken or she passes away

knowing they have a substantial amount of money tied up in a house

They don’t, practically. They will, when her lifetime interest ends (or, to put it more bluntly, when she dies).

I’d be encouraging your partner to see a therapist, not a solicitor.

That they’ve been debating this for “many years” suggests that they know that they can’t do much - and it’s be abhorrent to try; really, when their dad was clear on his wishes - but they’re still hung up on it. They need to talk it through with someone who can help them with grief, and acceptance.

wow.
My sympathy is 100% for the lady.
My FIL is in this exact postion. He remarried and had 10 very happy years with his second wife (my MIL died years ago)
They lived in HER house.
The will says that he can stay there until he dies or goes into a nursing home.

I cannot imagine how anyone would wnat to turf him out. It is his home and where he shared their life together.

Fortunately for my FIL his wife's relatives are nice.

Your dha nd hi brothers need to let this go. The money form the house is not theirs. It only becomes theirs when she dies/leaves. They sound liek a bunch of vultures hanging roudn waiting to her to die.
Back off and get on with their own lives.

The only thing I have some sympathy with is that they have no access eg to photos. that is something that could easily be negotiated, they could get copies of ones she wanted to keep, and then they would have their own copies and she would have hers.

I agree, nothing to do with closure. They are could ting the money.

This is a perfectly normal and sensible arrangement with very fair terms. He could have left her the house. He didn't. Tell dh to stop dwelling on it. Think of it as a pension.

I say this as someone who also has money willed to her dh with stipulations that mean we might never get it, get it when we are old, or get vastly reduced amount depending on how long someone lives and how their expenses are managed it's not particularly fair and it is money that has effectively been diverted from dh by shitty family dynamics and a bad decision with the family business by dh granddad. But I tell you what, its better to have the prospect of something than nothing at all. If it comes that's great if it doesn't we don't rely on it or count on it.

In your case you have a retirement pot to look forward to. Yes they are lucky and they need to stop whinging and speculating.

Be the bigger person.dont sit there waiting for someone to die. And challenging the will is a bad idea.

@Measureformeasure thank you. that's really useful advice. I have said to my DP to just see it as an investment. Money in savings accounts earns very little in the way of interest. This on the other hand has risen in value substantially over the years.

I have no interest in this property. I just keep having the same conversation with my DP and I know he keeps having it with his brothers. I think what I am trying to get at is that if nothing can be done, they need to be told that by the appropriate person legally so they can put it to bed. It's driving them all mad a little bit.

When I say living it up, its a big house. She has very little in the way of outgoings everything was taken care of for her upon the death of the father and she has been able to maintain a pretty lavish lifestyle whilst the brothers have had some times where they have been and to mouth. I think it just adds to their frustration.

Essentially what I am asking (which I may have worded badly) is who do they speak to to get their expectations set?
I don't think its healthy for any of them holding such resentment over this issue. Its been ongoing for a decade and I think they need to put it to bed, even if that means they are told there is nothing they can do.

Would they feel the same if their dad was still alive? If not, then it’s purely about the money. Not about their dads wishes that his wife was looked after, something he clearly thought they would not do. So dad made sure she was looked after.
If the quarter would not pay for her to have a home of her own - what do the brothers suggest happens to this (possibly) elderly lady?

If their father was still alive, nothing would be any different. It wouldn't occur to them to think that he should sell the house and give them 1/4of the proceeds each. They'd struggle on as normal.

Their father left a will. They're lucky that he didn't just leave the house to their SM, frankly. Maybe they should be grateful for their near miss, and be glad that at some time in the future they will have a windfall.

When I say living it up, its a big house. She has very little in the way of outgoings everything was taken care of for her upon the death of the father and she has been able to maintain a pretty lavish lifestyle whilst the brothers have had some times where they have been and to mouth. I think it just adds to their frustration.

Property goes up in value, generally. You say this has risen substantially.

So if, when the father died, it had been sold straight away and spilt 4 ways. Would it have been enough to stop them living 'hand to mouth' ?

What would that cut have actually have got then long term? A whole house? A deposit? A few holidays? Chances are whatever it got them wouldn't be having a huge impact on their finances now, years later.

But now it's worth more. So their portion will be worth more, than it was when their father died.

Her outgoings, won't be that cheap l. Larger house cost more to heat, higher council tax etc. But she is keeping up with the bills.

They have no right to the house itself at the moment. They have a financial interest in the house. But she is abiding by the terms of the will.

Does your partner and his brothers really believe this is going to be cheap or easy? Do they realise they could all walk away with their portion being vastly reduced to cover legal expenses and it could take years. It could take years and a lot of money and them not win.

This womans husband died. Now his sons want to ignore his will and take her home too?

They shouldn't need to have a word with anyone. They should be having a word with themselves.

As pp said, would they be so annoyed at their dad living in the house, if she had died and be thinking they were entitled to their share now?

Honestly, I would be pretty horrified if my dp was talking about trying to get his dad's wife out of their house so they could have the money.

If they want possessions from the house and she isn't giving them up, there's not much they can do. Butbits not surprising she doesn't want to give them anything. I would guess she knows exactly what they are like.

The father made his wishes clear in the will that he wanted her to have a lifetime interest in it, so it's very wrong to try to 'get this woman out'.

also just to clarify there is a lot more to this than I can say on here....and there is a lot I don't fully understand with regards to the relationship between the brothers and the fathers dp. She was substantially younger than the father so isn't an elderly woman now but I don't think that makes a difference. From what I understand the will was changed days before his death and once he passed she tried to cut them out further/stop them having cash that was also promised to them in the will which they finally got but had to fight for- it wasn't lots of money, just 2-3k each. They were unable to retrieve stuff from the house. The relationship between them all is not good and there is a lot of resentment about the relationship itself.

I have also explained to DP as others have stated above that if they were to hypothetically get their own way people in their local community (its a small place) would see it as other have put above. That she had been forced out of her home and probably unlikely to get a decent property for her share of the money.

I have my own home, this is of no financial interest to me......this is just me trying to set dp and his brother expectations as like I say has been rumbling on for years. I said I would post on here as I know nothing about law and have no idea where they stand but thought it would be a good place to start in getting them advice about where they stand.

I am not great at articulating myself so may have worded my posts poorly but its not all about the money- I genuinely believe them when they say they want closure.
The house is probably worth in excess of 500k these days although they have no idea of the state of repairs inside etc. I have no idea what it would have been worth in the past but as others have stated I have told DP to see it as an investment for later in life.

I just thought if a solicitor told them that they might actually listen.

I think what I am trying to get at is that if nothing can be done, they need to be told that by the appropriate person legally so they can put it to bed. It's driving them all mad a little bit

They've already been told the circumstances of the step mothers right to stay - you outlined them in your post. What else do they want to hear?

A private client solicitor (wills and private) will happily see your DH and his brothers parted with circa £1000 plus vat to tell you there’s nothing they can do but wait.

Practically every law firm up and down the country will have private client lawyers.

(Wills and probate!)