How do I overturn an agreement in a Non-Molestation order hearing?

[Danny2021]

Hi all.

I hope you're all keeping safe and well.

I was given a non-molestation order (initiate by my wife who I have lived away from for a year) 2 weeks ago which was given without notice.

I attended a telephone hearing today.

There were claims of domestic abuse (which I deny) but neither of us have any evidence (unless they were fabricated).

I understand that I should have offered an undertaking so that no further hearing needed to take place, but only after the hearing ended did I realise that this must be in lieu of the non-molestation order in order for it to be clear that I deny all allegations.

Unfortunately, I was overwhelmed in the call and I did not use the word "undertaking" at all, and I accepted the order to continue on the basis of no fact-finding.

Is there a form that I can fill in to "retract" my acceptance of the non-molestation order and (request to) replace it with an undertaking?

Thanks.

You can apply to discharge the order on form FL403.

But what's the point. An undertaking is really no different from your point of view to an NMO, the material difference is that there is a power of arrest attached to an NMO, but there isn't one attached to an undertaking, which means that if you breach the undertaking the applicant has to return to court in order to enforce it.

But in real life, if you breached an undertaking, the chances are you are committing some form of crime and the applicant could easily call the police and inform them that there is a problem of some sort or other - and the end result is the same: you get arrested.

So, if you want to make the application to vary or set aside the NMO, feel free, but expect the other party to ask for their costs for your unreasonableness.

Thanks so much for your response.

I did wonder what the difference was. I have no intention of contacting her at all. My only issue is that I do not want my name tarnished, and I don't want anyone to believe that I accept the allegations made against me.

Re the costs: she has applied via legal aid (and I have read online that DV allegations are on the rise because that's the only way to get legal aid).

There is also no way now for me to arrange to see my children as the initial NMO stated "don't contact her except via her solicitor" and her solicitor asked the Judge in the call to remove that exception because he has no "funding" for child arrangement. I wonder, will I get an updated NMO in the post at some point? The court has not been answering calls for the past 2 days.

Honestly, I want nothing to do with her, and the sooner she is out of my life, the better. I just want to see my children, and they want to see me too, but the NMO states that I am unable to contact them at all too.

The court will send out the updated order. You might have to make an application to court to try to sort out contact if there's no other way of resolving it. With the NMO in place it's probably best not to contact her unless there's something in the order to say you csn contact her about the children. You need to complete a C100 to ask for a child arrangements order.

I have to say.. As someone who had a large catalogue of evidence and had a non molestation order served ex parte on my ex.. These things don't just get served willy nilly.. She won't have been able to get an ex parte non molestation order without evidence.

Hi @Danny2021

Sorry to say this, my Ex has a Non Mol order without notice, and I had to provide quite a lot of evidence to prove why I needed it, I do not believe in your case that there is no evidence, the fact it was granted initially without notice suggests otherwise.

It's just better to be honest you'll get better advice that way. She would've at least needed a police report to get a non molestation order ex parte.

@Pebbledashery

I have to say.. As someone who had a large catalogue of evidence and had a non molestation order served ex parte on my ex.. These things don't just get served willy nilly.. She won't have been able to get an ex parte non molestation order without evidence.

The usual "evidence" is contained wholly within the written statement of the applicant. IU hardly ever see independent evidence to back up these claims (which is not to say they are not true - simply that the notion that most cases don't turn on one person's word against the other is incorrect).

OP - if I were you I'd apply for a child arrangements order on a C100. You should be able to get out of the mediation requirement given the circumstances.

Well i only know from my lived experience, I'm not a solicitor.

@Pebbledashery I am being 100% honest. As @Collaborate states, there was a quite lengthy 10 page document where a lot of allegations are exaggerated and others are downright lies.

I won't lie, I'm not an angel. We did have a lot of marital issues, and I did send her one or two insulting text messages after she had done something very frustrating, but it was only one sentence and out of anger, so she would have that as evidence. Also, there was one recent incident where she blew something out of proportion and called the police so there's that report too.

I never raised my hand to hit her. I don't have to pretend on a forum because it is more or less anonymous :)

My name isn't Danny LOL

Interim NMOs are given all the time on the basis of the statement given to the court - evidence is not needed, certainly the court does not expect any police reports, though if there are reports, these help. But it is perfectly possible (and happens all the time) for an NMO to be granted solely on the basis of the fact that someone has applied for one and the court thinks it will be better to make an interim order rather than risk the alternative.

So, to those being suspicious of the OP, the reality is that he could be completely innocent, just as he could be completely guilty - we don't know.

However, the court gave the continuing NMO on the basis of his agreement, and MADE NO FINDINGS OF FACT, so the OP doesn't need to worry about that, no one tested the issues raised, the NMO was granted without testing.

If the OP had challenged the order, a hearing would have been listed and each allegation raised would have been tested by the court to decide if it was a fact or not. Often it is better to just let the NMO run than have the court find 'facts', as these are really just someone else's opinion and can be vastly different from actual facts.

I do have to state that the rise in domestic abuse claims is NOT because of legal aid, it's because it's become more publicised and people (women) feel more confident that they will be listened to and are becoming more willing to report it - even though there is still a large proportion that are still not believed...and the family courts often don't follow through with protecting women - but that is another story.

OP, you can apply for child arrangements on form C100. You won't be able to do mediation, but will still need to do a MIAM for the mediator to sign off on your C100 so you can apply to court. No point in delaying this application because without it you will be months (years perhaps) without seeing your kids, so get the application in tomorrow.

and I have read online that DV allegations are on the rise because that's the only way to get legal aid

Or to put it another way, DV reporting is on the rise as legal aid is now available whereas before, victims of DV who were generally less able to afford legal representation due to the actions of their often financially controlling partners and therefore reluctant to engage legal representation are now able to do so and receive the justice they so rightly deserve.

[quote Danny2021]**@Pebbledashery* I am being 100% honest. As @Collaborate* states, there was a quite lengthy 10 page document where a lot of allegations are exaggerated and others are downright lies.

I won't lie, I'm not an angel. We did have a lot of marital issues, and I did send her one or two insulting text messages after she had done something very frustrating, but it was only one sentence and out of anger, so she would have that as evidence. Also, there was one recent incident where she blew something out of proportion and called the police so there's that report too.

I never raised my hand to hit her. I don't have to pretend on a forum because it is more or less anonymous :)

My name isn't Danny LOL[/quote]
DV isn’t just about violence though. Sounds to me like you’re laying the blame squarely on her shoulders. It’s the old ‘she drove me to it’ excuse.

@soontobe60

I don't know how to quote your final message. I am not laying blame squarely on her shoulders. I sent that text message and I take full responsibility for it. Every time I remember sending it I cringe and I wish I could turn back time and not send the message, but my point is that all I sent was a one sentence text message, I didn't bring police to chuck her out of my home for false reasons, and I didn't lie to someone about what she has done to me.

Allegations of domestic abuse account for 70% of family court cases whereas domestic abuse is experienced by 5% of the wider population. Even if it were the case that people were speaking up that doesn't account for that discrepancy. Also, you will see since LASPO has been introduced legal aid has skewed massively away from men being able to claim.

I have been a victim of someone fraudulently claiming legal aid despite having no non-molestation order, no undertakings, no findings, no criminal record and no evidence.

In fact as we speak my GP/local authority are busy redacting allegations from our daughters records.

Once my family court case is over I am intending to contact my MP about this and will bring all my evidence to bear. I truly believe legal aid is being incorrectly accessed by many people given how easy it was for my ex to claim. She even said in her statement she has no evidence which would satisfy the balance of probabilities.

I think they should bring back legal aid for everyone to stop these allegations tearing families apart.

Oh and the other interesting thing I have learnt since being dragged into the world of false allegations/domestic abuse/family law is that most domestic abuse is bidirectional (two perpetrators not one) which is not the narrative that is heard at all.

I can't wait to drag myself and my daughter out of this crazy fantasists scene.

@Skeptadad

Oh and the other interesting thing I have learnt since being dragged into the world of false allegations/domestic abuse/family law is that most domestic abuse is bidirectional (two perpetrators not one) which is not the narrative that is heard at all.

I can't wait to drag myself and my daughter out of this crazy fantasists scene.

What?

Evidence please?

I provided tons of evidence for my non-mols. Email, video, letters, texts, places he just happened to turn up, school, brownies, photographic evidence.

I ended up with a very detailed 3 side order.

There was never violence, coercive control and historic rape.

Getting the non-mol was hard. They don't hand them out like sweeties.

Hi guys. An update. So I finally received written confirmation that I can meet with my kids one day a week. I spoke to him and explained the situation.

Anyway, his mum called him and asked to be put on loudspeaker so I could hear what she said. She said she had no idea what kind of orders were happening behind the scenes, and that she was pressured into writing the statement by the police.

The pessimist in me believes that she was just saying that to make the child feel better. But the optimist in me thinks otherwise.

I don't care about the second statement because she still wrote it.

@JustAnotherLawyer2 I've just checked the signature on the NMO application and it is not hers, it's a random X. The signature on the "first statement" is hers. My question is, can the NMO application be signed for by the solicitor or does the NMO application have to be signed for by the applicant?

Thanks.

Your ex is playing games, and don't speak to her, she'll claim you broke the NMO.

An NMO application can be signed by the solicitor - and often is, the statements are always signed by the applicant with a statement of truth.

Drop the optimism, she's got an order against you because she wanted one and convinced the court she needed one. The police do not take any part in civil proceedings and would not have pressured her into doing a witness statement, she'd have written that with her lawyer's help and signed it of her own free will.

I'm not a lawyer but Just Another Lawyer2 on here obviously sounds very experienced so I wouldn't naysay their advice at all and I'd think hard about what they've said.

I accept that appealing this may result in costs because you have been unreasonable in agreeing to something that you then changed your mind to. But for me I wouldn't want it to be on record that I had agreed to a non molestation order as that would imply to me that I was admitting that I had harmed her in some way. Even though it might not technically mean that, I would think others would think that's what it meant. I would also be worried that it would be used in later possible court cases and also shown to my son. So I 100% understand why you would not want that on your record.

I'm sorry but an non mol without notice has a reasonable period of time for you to make representations, before a return date hearing.

I had 2 hearings for my no notice non mol.

If you weren't served properly, you can challenge the order being made. If you were notified, it was the time to dispute it.

The police advised me to get a non mol. SS made it a requirement for me to keep my kids.

@JustAnotherLawyer2

Your ex is playing games, and don't speak to her, she'll claim you broke the NMO.

An NMO application can be signed by the solicitor - and often is, the statements are always signed by the applicant with a statement of truth.

Drop the optimism, she's got an order against you because she wanted one and convinced the court she needed one. The police do not take any part in civil proceedings and would not have pressured her into doing a witness statement, she'd have written that with her lawyer's help and signed it of her own free will.

You were spot on. I just found out. Good job I didn't fall for it.

Such a sad state of affairs.

Megasausagehead, apologies for the late response, been very busy with work.

You can find the evidence on the PASK website. Which is the world's largest domestic violence research data base:
domesticviolenceresearch.org/domestic-violence-facts-and-statistics-at-a-glance/

I find the subject of domestic abuse absolutely fascinating since being accused of being a pedophile and a rapist by my ex and how easily she can distance herself from such allegations now they no longer suit and are detrimental. I would be interested to know how the trauma of being falsely investigated of rape by the police compares to other forms of domestic abuse. Whilst I was being investigated by the police my ex caused problems for my employer and I was made redundant. There is no support for men.

I have my daughter have half the week and will be telling her not to be scared of men. that she isn't a victim and teaching her self-defense as I am not blind to the fact that a small proportion of men can be aggressive.

It's disgusting that a lot of innocent men are accused of once they have started family court proceedings and the total lack of accountability for it. Maybe OP is guilty but my Solicitor seems to think it's happening frequently.