Neighbour (hobby farmer) threatening to shoot our pet goats

[Picasso31]

Does anybody know if he is legally entitled to do this if they get into his orchard (overgrown 'heritage' trees surrounded by weeds that he is apparently 'nurturing' -suspect there is rural funding available for this as he is a hobby farmer with very poorly managed land).

We have checked his orchard and there is no damage to his trees. He keeps his sheep in there who are as likely to eat his trees as our goats. Feeling rather threatened by this as women living alone as he was rather aggressive on the phone.

What would you do?

Put your own fence up, that particular fence might be his responsibility but keeping your animals safe and off his land is your own responsibility.

Haha! What would I do?

Apologise profusely and ensure that my pets don’t venture onto the land of a man who wants to shoot them. I would stop making excuses about fence maintenance and take it upon myself to build a fence within my own boundary

No he can’t.

@Picasso31

Not to drip feed, but the fences are his legal property and he refuses to maintain them, which would keep our goats out. His rams have previously got in to our pet sheep and resulted in unwanted lambs, but we didn't over react or charge him as we could have.

The goats haven't damaged his trees and it's not a recurrent issue, the goats are not regularly on his land and if they have been today it was for a very short time (2 games of wimbledon final) as when we checked they were in our field.. He even has the trees fenced off, but they're not well managed they're swamped by bracken and weeds as is most of his land surrounding us.

That doest stop you putting your own fence up alongside his on your boundary though does it.

If you have animals, you should ensure your ground is secure so that animas don't impose on the neighbours

He can't legally shoot them just because they stray on to his land. Whether he could get away with doing so is another thing entirely. Chances are he's just ran out of patience with your refusal to fence them in appropriately and he's threatening as a last resort.

Presumably your goats have been on his land previously.As another poster has said, goats do terrible damage to trees and it's unfixable so he could charge you for damage to his trees.Regarding shooting your goats , you could query the legality of this with police but you may be better focusing on your fences and making sure the animals are adequately insured.

From 1 goat owner to another,

You are responsible for your goats, put up electric fencing and keep them on your property.

No he cannot legally shoot them. There's specific legislation for dogs worry livestock - it certainly doesn't apply to goats eating trees.

However if he did shoot them it would likely be a civil matter/property damage unless he was in breach of firearms legislation. Might be criminal damage.
Regardless the easiest way of managing it is prevention. Get some e-fencing

Don't you need a licence for goats, and proof that you have secure fencing? My friend keeps gots, and she had to jump through a lot of hoops and inspections.

At school, we kept them on chains secured by concrete blocks during the day, and they still got out occasionally.

This might help you learn how to care for goats www.rspca.org.uk/documents/1494939/7712578/An+introduction+to+goat+welfare+and+ownership+%28PDF+1.3MB%29.pdf/4cffaff4-978c-c6bd-ec64-2c2726e1f6a9?t=1553856398597

I know someone who keeps a shotgun by the back door to protect his garden. It’s his pride and joy and woe befall the small creature who dared damage it. You aren’t going to rationalize with the people with this mindset. Get your own fence up ASAP.

put netting onto the fence

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00KGDSZDU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?psc=1&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&ie=UTF8

Thanks to those who have answered re legality of shooting them, we will be putting up some more electric fencing tomorrow along the last bit of the boundary between us that isn't already electrified, to do everything we can to stop them getting out. We don't want them getting out , but livestock do occasionally escape. Sheep and cows on the lane from the local farms are not infrequent events.

It really has come out of the blue, they aren't regularly marauding round his field and haven't even eaten his trees today (have been and checked.) It just doesn't seem a rational reaction rather just having a sensible conversation.

He cannot legally shoot your goats, but could probably sue you for damages, the livestock owner has strict liability for keeping stock secure, you can't blame his fencing. I'd redo fencing onyour land and send him a bottle of scotch.

@Micemakingclothes

I know someone who keeps a shotgun by the back door to protect his garden. It’s his pride and joy and woe befall the small creature who dared damage it. You aren’t going to rationalize with the people with this mindset. Get your own fence up ASAP.

I'm not terribly familiar with firearms, but I'm fairly sure a shotgun licence involves keeping the weapon unloaded, separate from ammunition, and under lock and key. This dude wants reporting.

Electric fencing is supposed to be used as an addition security measure by some goat owners to protect their goats from predators. Care has to be taken that the goats cannot routinely come into contact with it, especially if you have horned goats.

Please put up some proper fences, like you were required to do before you bought your hobby goats. How is your poor neighbour meant to have a sensible conversation with someone who cannot even provide their animal's legal basic requirements.

Did you ring up and shout at him when his Ram got in with your sheep ?

That is one clever Ram, it got out of the neighbours field and through your fence into your field. Or have you not bothered to fence the sheep either?

And stop trespassing in the orchard, it is not yours.

Good grief you have annoyed me and I don't have to live next door to you.

So if OP's goats get out its her fault and if the neighbours sheep get out that is also her fault ? If we are going down the route of blaming her for everything, can I add covid and England losing to the list

Not quite @frumpety when you keep livestock you have to have decent fences, ones that will keep you animals in and other people's animals out.

It is the neighbours fault that his ram escaped but OPs fault that it got in with her sheep.
If you are keeping your animals properly it should not matter if your neighbours are a bit crap with fences. Indeed you neighbours are entitled to just have posts with a bit of rope strung between if they fancy.

I doubt covid is ops fault. But you never know, if a virus species jumped on a small holding in England, we may never know until it reached China. That is another thread though.

I'm not sure if it matters what he legally can do, he's told you what he will do which is a whole other matter. You need to ensure your boundary fence is safe and secure to protect your animals.

To be fair @Postdatedpandemic very few fences would keep a seriously horny ram in or out , I have seen one merrily drag an entire electric fence along with him ! Next door has gappy hedges to keep the cows in, they have been known to wander onto my lawn for a mooch , leaving massive cow sized hoof holes, but that's one of the joys of living in the countryside, free range fresians, the smell at muck spreading and the rumble of tractors all night long at harvest time, wouldn't have it any other way

Goats are pretty comparable to horny rams @frumpety, I've had conversations along the line of "Why is you goat on my roof?"

Placemarking as this is the best thread all day 🐐

I have rare breed sheep and every so often there’s a break out! Make sure you have third party liability cover on your goats. I don’t think he can shoot them. Normal practice is to either ask you to collect them or return them to you.
It’s fairly normal in the countryside to either lose some of your own animals or to suddenly find you have a lot of someone else’s. Usually everyone is really nice about it because if it’s your neighbours cows in yours this week it’ll be your sheep in his next week!