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Original poster

Overstaying in rental - house owned by church

40 replies

chorusline79 · 07/07/2021 10:21

Hi,
Apologies this is long winded! We are currently renting a vicarage and In January this year we were told we had to be out by 26 July.
We had offer accepted on a house to buy in early February, so all good we thought! Except that the house sale is still not done. It was a probate and the vendor made mistakes with paperwork so it has delayed even further ( i know it can take ages anyway) so we are told probate should be through anytime now. We have done the searches etc and all else in place but obviously we could still be a little way away. We have asked the church for a month extension and they have said no, and that their policy is to start legal proceedings and that they will make us pay the expenses. We are stuck as we have nowhere to go! One solution is to move in early to our new place with some kind of agreement drawn up ( rent free as it's empty and vendor is ok with it) but our solicitor advises against it.
I'm not sure whether we just try and stick it out here and risk repercussions or to just move in against solicitors advice - does anyone have any experience? Advice or insights as I feel like my head is going to explode right now!

OP posts:
FortunesFave · 07/07/2021 10:38

Why does your solicitor advise against it? If the vendor is ok and you have a proper tenancy agreement drawn up, there'd be no issue.

On the other hand, if you overstay then you will indeed be liable for the court costs.

I'm a long time renter. I know that you COULD stay...and that the church would need around 3 months to have you legally evicted but this is very stressful to go through and the costs would outweigh the benefits.

Or you could just rent somewhere else short term.

Canigooutyet · 07/07/2021 10:49

Have you received a s21 form from them yet?

Original poster
chorusline79 · 07/07/2021 10:50

Thanks @FortunesFave

I'm not sure why - solicitors don't like it apparently as it muddies the waters but I don't think we have much choice unfortunately. There are hardly any rentals about as we live in a fairly rural area and so a short term rental would be v tricky to find I think. Plus we then have to move all our stuff into storage and move twice which I am very keen to avoid with 2 young kids also!

OP posts:
Original poster
chorusline79 · 07/07/2021 10:51

@Canigooutyet no not yet - I guess this will be coming after the 26 July!

OP posts:
YelloYelloYello · 07/07/2021 10:55

Plus we then have to move all our stuff into storage and move twice which I am very keen to avoid with 2 young kids also!

Worst case scenario this could happen anyway as your sale could fall through. But as long as you’re remaining realistic (whilst also remaining hopeful) then moving in as a rental seems to be the best option.

Maybe you could ask the solicitors to explain what their specific concerns with this potential scenario are. It might help you decide what to do.

Peach1886 · 07/07/2021 10:55

I can see why it might worry a solicitor, but if there is a proper legal tenancy agreement then surely that would get round any concerns?

Another option might be for the vendor to let it to you on the same basis that AirBnB owners use, a time-defined short term let at a specific total price...a colleague of mine is currently living in one of these whilst he waits for his new property to be ready.

VettiyaIruken · 07/07/2021 10:57

If you've not even been given the section 21 then they don't have a leg to stand on, surely?

Beeeeeeeeeeeeeep · 07/07/2021 10:59

[quote chorusline79]@Canigooutyet no not yet - I guess this will be coming after the 26 July! [/quote]
The section 21 notice is the legal notice to end the tenancy. If you haven't had it then you don't have to leave.

Hoppinggreen · 07/07/2021 10:59

What does your contract say?
I would imagine the church has to stick to the same rules as any other landlord- I’m not an expert though

Radio4ordie · 07/07/2021 11:02

@chorusline79

Hi, Apologies this is long winded! We are currently renting a vicarage and In January this year we were told we had to be out by 26 July. We had offer accepted on a house to buy in early February, so all good we thought! Except that the house sale is still not done. It was a probate and the vendor made mistakes with paperwork so it has delayed even further ( i know it can take ages anyway) so we are told probate should be through anytime now. We have done the searches etc and all else in place but obviously we could still be a little way away. We have asked the church for a month extension and they have said no, and that their policy is to start legal proceedings and that they will make us pay the expenses. We are stuck as we have nowhere to go! One solution is to move in early to our new place with some kind of agreement drawn up ( rent free as it's empty and vendor is ok with it) but our solicitor advises against it. I'm not sure whether we just try and stick it out here and risk repercussions or to just move in against solicitors advice - does anyone have any experience? Advice or insights as I feel like my head is going to explode right now!
Ah shame you can extend the contract. They’ll probably be a clergy family desperately trying to move (potentially from the other side of the country) and get their kids into school for September and all that stuff.

My brother rented the house he now owns for a couple of weeks. It was more the vendors solicitor who wasn’t keen because obviously if the sale fell through then they would have to go to all the hassle of getting him out and delays finding a new buyer. But thankfully his vendor was very happy to let him and it worked out fine.

Radio4ordie · 07/07/2021 11:03

^ can’t extend the contract

thecapitalsunited · 07/07/2021 11:06

If they haven’t given you a section 21 then your tenancy won’t end (do get your solicitor to check over the terms of your tenancy in case there is anything weird there) at the end of the fixed period. They have to give you notice that they want to end the tenancy. Currently that’s four months. When your fixed term expires, providing you are indeed on an assured shorthold tenancy then it will go to a period tenancy either on statutory terms or contractual terms depending on what the original contract says.

Original poster
chorusline79 · 07/07/2021 11:09

@Radio4ordie

They're not. The people moving in are living locally already and are a couple with grown up children

But we do need to leave as I don't want the hassle and stress as the estate agent tells us they won't be flexible at all. I think we will just have to go against solicitors advice and move in and hope the sale goes through! Yes to the previous poster who said they will be worried about it in terms of sale not going through.

OP posts:
Original poster
chorusline79 · 07/07/2021 11:09

@Peach1886 interesting idea - thanks I hadn't thought of that.

OP posts:
Canigooutyet · 07/07/2021 11:10

And if the section 21 isn't issued correctly it's invalid.

TakeYourFinalPosition · 07/07/2021 11:19

I’d be stunned if the solicitors allowed you to be present in the house before completion. It has to be vacant. It makes it incredibly complex if it’s not, and voids the terms of most residential mortgages.

But if you haven’t had a S21 yet, you don’t need to leave. They can’t start court proceedings without one, and right now, they have to give you three months notice. So it doesn’t matter - until you get a S21, your tenancy hasn’t been ended (unless you’ve had a S8, but I’m presuming you’d have mentioned that!)

Original poster
chorusline79 · 07/07/2021 11:38

Ok so I didn't realise this but we have in fact been served the section 21 which was sent to us when they gave us notice 🤦🏼‍♀️ so the section 21 has the date of 26 July on it. So I guess we will be liable for costs if we are not out by that date!

OP posts:
thecapitalsunited · 07/07/2021 11:42

Usually it would be the vendor who was advised against not allowing the buyers to move into a property before completion. I’m not entirely sure what the objection the other way around is. In fact I bought the place I was renting a few years ago and no one had a problem with that.

Original poster
chorusline79 · 07/07/2021 11:46

@thecapitalsunited yes I would assume the risk is more for the vendor if there was a problem with the sale and they couldn't then get us out but our solicitor not happy but will do it and sort out the agreement nonetheless.

OP posts:
Reallyreallyborednow · 07/07/2021 12:31

Can you get a removal to put all your stuff into storage and move in with a family member short term? It’ll be aug so no school to worry about.

Or book an air b&b somewhere for the month. Plenty do longer term lets.

jay55 · 07/07/2021 12:34

You don't have to leave at the end of the section 21, it's the date the landlord can start legal proceedings to get you out.

Don't move into your new place early, because you then won't be able to complete with vacant possession, even though it is you who is in there.

thecapitalsunited · 07/07/2021 13:30

@jay55 I bought a flat that I already lived in (our landlord sold it to us) and it honestly wasn’t a problem. Technically we took over our own tenancy but then I asked my landlord to terminate my tenancy and they did because my landlord was me. Getting my deposit back took a bit of faff because even with all the paperwork to show we owned the flat, the letting agent wouldn’t release the deposit without our old landlord’s say so.

ChicChaos · 07/07/2021 13:37

I've bought a property we were renting, so we were already in it when the sale went through. The owners/landlords did make it clear on the paperwork that we were already in there.

Canigooutyet · 07/07/2021 17:04

Of course you can buy the property you live in. Probably could well before right to buy was introduced

motogogo · 07/07/2021 17:10

If it's a Church of England church, there's a possibility it's a vicar moving in hence the fixed date. But also the diocese may have other properties you could short term let. It's not their fault your house sale is delayed, a fixed term is just that. I know it suck but you need to call and see if there's any wiggle room otherwise come up with a plan b - storage and temporary housing maybe?