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Legal matters

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Overhanging leylandii onto driveway

52 replies

Kew1 · 01/07/2021 11:38

Hi - I'm hoping there may be some property lawyers lurking on here, or someone who has come through a similar issue and out of the other side. I will try to keep it brief and on the advice of another mumsnetter over on the Property channel I am posting the relevant pages of our Land Registry 'Charge Certificate' and some photos.

We share a driveway with our neighbours who carved up their garden and sold the plot to build our house in 1997. There were one lot of owners who bought the new build before us and we are the second owners, moving in four years ago.

For context the neighbour (landowner) is 80 and seems to have some kind of OCD. He has an extreme need for control and literally cuts blades of grass to tidy them. I can give more detail but essentially it is very odd and highly unlikely that somebody of his character would sell land and agree to share a drive. I think he finds it highly stressful in theory (in practice we do nothing out of the ordinary and are very quiet and considerate neighbours). He does a lot of territory marking of the area in front of his house, where the driveway sits and has made us feel that we are driving across his front garden each day. It used to be his front garden before it was concreted over to form an extension of the driveway to our house and we really feel he hasn't moved on from this since 1997. We would have sympathy if this had been done to him, as he is an old man, but he was in his 50s when he sold the land and made a lot of money from it. Plus there is actually no compromise he has to make in reality as you will see from the plans (I think, but I am clearly biased!).

His latest 'antic', which has been a work in progress since we moved in 4 years ago, has been to grow his leylandii hedge over our stretch of the driveway, as shown in the pictures. He obviously kept it back when the previous owners were here but has let it grow over since we arrived. He doesn't like vans coming down the driveway and he has told us that he thinks this deters them and 'slows traffic' (there is no traffic issue and his house is set back as any house would be from a lane or road running past). Anyway, he has told us he has done this deliberately and continues to do it. He still pays the local tree company to cut it each year, they were here 3 weeks ago, but has briefed them (he tells me) to not cut it back hard, even though we asked him explicitly to do this and he agreed. He has told me he then went back on his word and asked them not to do this after all and to leave the height of it uncut this time round. He tells me these things to wind me up as well as saying things like 'don't lose any sleep over it' as a parting shot. He is a nasty character unfortunately.

Our concern is that we won't now be able to get high sided vehicles down the lane and especially fire engines, ambulances and lorries to do our extension next year. (This will be his intention). I believe from reading on the subject that we are the dominant owners of an easement and he is the servient owner. His role is to do nothing to interfere with the easement but he has not responsibility to cut back from the easement either. We have asked to cut the hedge back and he refuses 'do not touch my hedge, do not damage it with lorries coming down' etc. So we are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Could somebody advise on how on earth we get this hedge cut back so we can regain the full width of the easement granted to us?

A cup of tea won't do it, we are on the tenth cup of tea and he smiles and says it doesn't worry him (which clearly makes me want to throw the tea in his face!).

I will post the legal docs separate post but attached to this are 1) a view from the road down the driveway - neighbour's house is on the left and ours is straight on where you see the timber garage and 2 and 3 are taken from our driveway to show the extent of the overhang (after his cut so this is as good as it now gets without cutting in to brown).

Thanks in advance!

OP posts:
Kew1 · 01/07/2021 11:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Kew1 · 01/07/2021 11:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously · 01/07/2021 11:43

Not a lawyer but anything which overhangs your own property, you can cut back. Personally I'd get someone in with a chainsaw and just do it. If you own half the drive the it's as much your right to cut it as his to grow it I would have thought.

LIZS · 01/07/2021 11:46

But it isn't op's property, she only has a row over the drive.

RestingPandaFace · 01/07/2021 11:52

I am not a lawyer but I read that as you don’t have the right to maintain it, although you are responsible for paying part of the costs.

You do have the right to access it with any vehicle, and if he is hindering that he would be in breech of his obligations and you could take legal action to force him…. Or get someone with a giant articulated lorry who doesn’t mind a few scratches to drive it right through his hedge.

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously · 01/07/2021 11:55

I thought they shared it. Either way he's not allowed to block her access to her own property, so I'd just cut it back and watch him go ape shit. What he's doing is like putting a block across the road, which he wouldn't be allowed to do and the OP would just remove. Once it's done it's going to take him 4 years to grow it back and then I'd do it again. The council have rules about height of bushes so I don't think they are going to do much - it would be a civil dispute anyway I think, so if he took you to court I think he'd be told that he has no right to obstruct access.
Or you can go down the legal route of seeing a solicitor first just to clarify your rights.

RestingPandaFace · 01/07/2021 11:57

@purplesequins has the grown up way of going about it. Grin

maryberryslayers · 01/07/2021 12:01

It's his responsibility to provide you an access 'with or without vehicles'. He therefore shouldn't purposely obstruct it which it's clear he is, however that could be difficult to prove, but you could ask the tree surgeons to confirm his instructions in writing.
However, as you have the right of way you also have the ability to repair and maintain it which in my book would mean you can clear it of obstruction.
Personally I'd just cut them back and tell him it's your right of way and he doesn't get to limit which vehicles you use. You could also ask a solicitor to send him letter in the first instance outlining your rights.

simbobs · 01/07/2021 12:01

The height is not the issue, it is the width. From the photos it does not look as though you will be able to cut these trees back without going into the brown. This is as a result of not cutting back enough over several years, not just the latest pruning. Does he have DC that you can discuss the matter with, who might be able to advocate for you?

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously · 01/07/2021 12:09

So if she cuts it back and it dies because he never had it cut back enough in the first place, is that not a win for the OP? Removes the ongoing problem?
Although I doubt it will die - I've got the bloody stuff in my garden and it's damn near impossible to kill

k1233 · 01/07/2021 12:12

Just let the lorries drive down the drive. It's amazing how traffic shapes trees close to roads. The route I drive to work has truck/bus trimmed shapes where the trees overhang the road from the flow of traffic.

TheMostHappy · 01/07/2021 12:22

I feel your pain OP. This stuff is just a nightmare.

We have had ongoing conversations with out back neighbours as they have leylandii on our boundary.

They agreed to have the trees reduced by 50% and thinned out as they overhang our garden by 6-8ft and leave a real mess.

When free surgeon was packing up Neighbour text me to say "how's it looking your side?"

I hadn't even realised they had started let alone finished. It looks like it has had barely a trim.

She says we can have it cut back our side, but we can't reach and it will cost a fortune to pay a tree surgeon to maintain someone else's tree for them.

ClaudiaWankleman · 01/07/2021 12:25

Just let the lorries drive down the drive. It's amazing how traffic shapes trees close to roads.

I agree, plus I doubt the lorry driver will be too worried about their work vehicle being scratched - certainly not too worried to make the delivery. The lorry runs just as much risk of scratches travelling down a country lane to get to you before they meet the driveway.

I don't think an ambulance or fire engine would let it stop them either.

k1233 · 01/07/2021 12:27

Just got some Google street view of the road I was talking about. Vehicles seem to do an excellent job of maintaining the hedge effect.

Overhanging leylandii onto driveway
Overhanging leylandii onto driveway
Kew1 · 01/07/2021 13:33

Thank you everyone, all good thoughts.

In answer to some questions - he owns the driveway in that he owns the land it is built on. All shared driveways have one or two owners with the others having an 'easement' over it so it's not unusual, but what's unusual in this case is that he is like a little evil troll who literally jumps out when someone uses the drive to check they are going slowly etc. The irony is, he otherwise wouldn't be anywhere near the lane and there would be no danger! He goes out in his old jag once a fortnight. In terms of the lorry idea, unfortunately lorries/vans are starting to park at the top of the lane and walk down now as they worry they won't be able to get through, which is exactly what he wants. We had a concrete lorry here last year for converting the garage and it took 4 or 5 men to get it through that area carefully because this leylandii is dense, it's like a wall, so you can't plough through annoyingly. My husband said a fire engine would as well so I would hope but it does worry me because they too wouldn't want to damage their equipment. I find it bonkers even talking about this and enraging as he has done it on purpose. You are right that this has taken several years - it was JUST off the drive at the bottom when we arrived four years ago (having been there for twenty years at least so he kept it under control just about for that long). Obviously when we moved in he decided to not cut it back as hard because he doesn't like the extra traffic created by a family (the previous owners had children but they were in their 60s when they moved out). The passive aggressive speeding sign facing only into our driveway was apparently put up because their teenagers were 'driving too fast', which you can imagine.

I think the idea to send a legal letter is a good one but the quote I had was £1400!!! We wouldn't enter into court proceedings due to stress and money involved. We would definitely get the chain saw out before that. He is crazy though, he would come out spitting and raging.

The high hedges act doesn't come into play (unless someone can advise otherwise?) as it's not our land, it is our easement/driveway running over his land.

OP posts:
MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously · 01/07/2021 15:06

So all you really need to know is whether you have a right to cut back branches that block your access. You could ask citizens advice or the council or pay a one off solicitors appt, which might be worth it because it's an ongoing problem.
Or just cut it down and let him flip his shit.

ClaudiaWankleman · 01/07/2021 15:52

I think the idea to send a legal letter is a good one but the quote I had was £1400!!!

Why don't you send him a letter with recorded delivery saying you are formally requesting he cuts back the hedge in order to allow access, and that the letter will be used as evidence if you need to recover costs or whatever.

It doesn't matter if it's rubbish - it might work.

Kew1 · 01/07/2021 16:23

Thanks for the suggestions. The solicitor I had a brief chat with on the phone, who quoted £1400 for a letter said that it's not 'clear cut' so to speak!! whether you can cut back a hedge from an easement, as opposed to your own land/property. But the a formal letter asking him to do it might work and ultimately I could seek an injunction for his hedge antics being a nuisance. From my original google searches though it seemed that cutting back a hedge from an easement WAS allowed so I was gutted to hear this. Although we risk being decapitated while we are doing it, it was good to think that doing it ourselves could be the option if diplomacy failed. Now I feel powerless. I was hoping that a mumsnet lawyer might be able to confirm or otherwise whether we do have the legal right to cut back off an easement - while it's not 'clear cut', I'm hoping the info and documents I've provided might give enough information to find out

Failing that, we will pay for an appointment with a property lawyer.
I appreciate all your suggestions and it's nice to get a bit of virtual support so thank you!

OP posts:
MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously · 01/07/2021 16:39

You could ask what's the worst that can happen to you if you went at it with a chainsaw yourself.

Kew1 · 01/07/2021 16:55

I think legally he could call the police and charge us with damage to his property... because it’s a separate matter from him using his ‘property’ to obstruct us. But I don’t know, I’m guessing on bits I’ve been told and read... and his aggressive stance

OP posts:
CoffeeBeansGalore · 01/07/2021 17:08

I have previously been told that hammering copper nails into the trunk will kill off a leylandi tree. Also a quick google suggests roundup will also slowly kill it off.
Although dire warnings accompanied this info that it is illegal to kill off a neighbour's tree.

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously · 01/07/2021 17:12

I think I'd double check whether it's considered a civil matter rather than a crime. If it's a civil matter he would have to take you to court - do you think that's likely?
It makes sense to try and compel him legally to cut it back - it would be great if you could force him to do it and pay for it, but if it were to get damaged by lots of big trucks drinking down there, there's nothing he could do Wink

RedHelenB · 01/07/2021 17:13

I'd be tempted to just cut it myself. And if police call use the argument that you were concerned that emergency vehicles would be unable to access your houses.

ahoyshipmates · 01/07/2021 17:26

Just to point out that you can't cut leylandii back hard to bare branches because it will not regrow from them, you will just have a sea of dead brown stumps. You always have to only cut back as far as you can while leaving green fronds still there.
Most conifer hedges are the same.

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