Help with obtaining access to children

[sd17]

Hi all, I'm looking for some advice/experience please. Dps nephew (20) got his girlfriend pregnant last summer. They'd only been together a few months and both young (she was 17, he was 19). He moved in with her and they seemed to both want to do it together. However after the first scan she decided that she didn't want to be together. It's a long story (isn't it always!) and I won't bother going into everything, but basically she decided she didn't want him to be involved (he is a very sweet, though immature, young man and has not done anything to warrant being excluded). Throughout her pregnancy he consistently messaged checking how they were both doing, even messaging to wish her a happy Mother's Day. A few months ago she changed her mind and said she did want him involved, and then a month or so later changed her mind again. He's tried to just keep checking in regularly and letting her know he wants to be involved, not much more he can do. He's also spent time working on himself, he got a job and a home and has been having some counselling (for low mood and low self-esteem). The baby was born recently, she didn't tell him (he found out through friends who saw on social media) and she hasn't responded to any of his messages since. He's planning to take the 'usual' route, arranging mediation first and then going to court if necessary. Which leads me to my actual question (sorry I do prefer to explain the situation!) Apparently he needs her address to be able to send info about mediation etc. She's living at her dads atm, and dn doesn't know the address. He's been there and would recognise it if he went again, but doesn't want to upset her by showing up just to find out what number she's at. So, does he actually need her address to start moving forward with his plans?? And if so, how could he go about getting it? Any advice to help this whole situation would be really appreciated, thanks in advance

Would Google streetview or the electoral roll help to work it out?

@MySocalledLoaf thanks for response :) we've tried google maps and street view, but it's a block of flats so can't find out what number. Electoral roll is a possibility, but every site I've seen wants you to pay to find out the persons actual address. Obviously tried to find out without having to pay, but worth it if necessary.

Have you looked up via residential phone numbers on BT's website? You just need the surname and the town.

They usually give the whole address. That's if they the person has a landline

Are you 100% certain he's the father? Based on her behavior, the baby may not actually be his?

Thanks @Mosaic123 will give that a try 👍

@TheSuezCanalTugBoat no he's not 100% certain, and I think he intends to also request a dna test, but of course she has to agree to that. I think if he gets to court they would insist on one if he wants one? I don't really know what the process is if she's not willing to do one :-/ however, I would think she couldn't be certain he wasn't the father. They were definitely together when she fell pregnant (and he was staying at hers v.regularly), so even if she was also sleeping with someone else it wouldn't be a clear cut 'couldn't be his' situation.

Does he think medication will work? Or does he want a contact arrangement? Medication has really poor success rates.

I would advise him to stop trying to find her address or he will be accused of being a coercive controller. I would also advise him not to communicate for the same reason.

I would apply to court for a contact arrangement:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-c100-application-under-the-children-act-1989-for-a-child-arrangements-prohibited-steps-specific-issue-section-8-order-or-to-vary-or-discharge

@Skeptadad I have researched the steps necessary and all the guidance I can find says that you cannot go to court without a MIAM (mediation assessment) so that has to be his first step. I believe he needs her address to arrange the MIAM - he's not contacted her friends/family to obtain it, and hasn't just turned up there so I don't see how that could be seen as coercive control?! He is being careful to make sure he doesn't act in any way that could be used against him later.

He doesn't need her address to get a MIAM. That's something he does on his own.

Given the cost of issuing the application in court is £215 it makes sense to pay the fee (often £50) for a PI to supply the address. If he won't go to the effort of doing that he's going to struggle with the effort of maintaining a relationship with a baby whose mother doesn't want him to be around.

[quote sd17]@Skeptadad I have researched the steps necessary and all the guidance I can find says that you cannot go to court without a MIAM (mediation assessment) so that has to be his first step. I believe he needs her address to arrange the MIAM - he's not contacted her friends/family to obtain it, and hasn't just turned up there so I don't see how that could be seen as coercive control?! He is being careful to make sure he doesn't act in any way that could be used against him later.[/quote]
He doesn't need her address to get a MIAM. That's something he does on his own.

Given the cost of issuing the application in court is £215 it makes sense to pay the fee (often £50) for a PI to supply the address. If he won't go to the effort of doing that he's going to struggle with the effort of maintaining a relationship with a baby whose mother doesn't want him to be around.

[quote sd17]@Skeptadad I have researched the steps necessary and all the guidance I can find says that you cannot go to court without a MIAM (mediation assessment) so that has to be his first step. I believe he needs her address to arrange the MIAM - he's not contacted her friends/family to obtain it, and hasn't just turned up there so I don't see how that could be seen as coercive control?! He is being careful to make sure he doesn't act in any way that could be used against him later.[/quote]
He doesn't need her address to get a MIAM. That's something he does on his own.

Given the cost of issuing the application in court is £215 it makes sense to pay the fee (often £50) for a PI to supply the address. If he won't go to the effort of doing that he's going to struggle with the effort of maintaining a relationship with a baby whose mother doesn't want him to be around.

I would ignore mediation as it is only has a 4% chance of success and the mother clearly doesn't want father involved.

You can claim exemption for mediation if there is domestic abuse.
www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/family/practice_directions/pd_part_03a

Not allowing a relationship with father might be considered emotional abuse of child and father.

I have been going through Family Court for 19 months now and it's easy to see the cases that are irretractable and are heading to court.

As mentioned be very careful about the address and communications as father will be painted as an abuser. As you can see the process has already started on this thread. 70% of cases in family court now allege domestic abuse so be very careful.

Can the mediation agency he chooses not advise about whether he actually needs the address?

If he does want a good chance of a positive relationship with his child and child's mother in future I would counsel strongly against either trying to claim domestic abuse when there has clearly been none (previous pp suggesting a 17yo new mother panicking and refusing contact at this very early stage being abuse is ludicrous and would be a very damaging and likely fruitless road to go down), or requesting a dna test unless he is very sure that there is a very good chance of the baby not being his. If the mother thinks the baby may not be, and she does not want contact between your dn and the child, she will say so. If she doesn't then requesting one would like also be damaging for future relations.

The medication company I used didn't need my ex partners address they emailed her, then after 48 hours (I think) they sent me my exemption. I suspect they are very used to being used as exemption providers. Then you can wack that in your C100.

As BewareTheBeardedDragon says that might be your best bet. At least you then won't be heading to court in such a confrontational manner.

Thanks all. I'm not sure of the process so didn't know whether he needs the address, but he and his mum are under the impression that they do.

He would never claim DV. She does already have SS involvement because of her own family issues but they don't seem to be encouraging contact or anything. Earlier on in her pregnancy he was engaging with a family support worker and did a parenting plan with them etc, but that's finished now. I know he'd prefer to have a civil relationship with her, though at the moment he is of course feeling upset and angry that she's denying him contact with his child for no good reason. Especially as he has behaved incredibly well throughout this whole situation, offering support if she wanted it, and giving her space. But now his son has been born, of course he wants to know him, and has every right to.

He's not averse to paying to get her address if necessary @Collaborate, just looking at all the options.