Really stupid question but...how do 'the authorities" know there's a will?!

[Pumpkyumpkyumpkin]

Does it get registered somewhere official?

Let's say there's a married couple (or a parent / child). One dies, the other one knows there's a will in the desk upstairs. Opens it and the dead person has left most of their assets to the donkey sanctuary. Alive person tears up the will and pretends there was no will in the first place so they can inherit under intestacy rules - could this happen?!

Or if its kept by a solicitor, but the alive person doesn't know this, or deliberately doesn't tell the solicitor when the other person dies.

I've always wondered...put me out of my misery!

The authorities don't know if there is a will.

In your first scenario, if the will in the desk is the only copy, the deceased has not registered it on the National Wills Register (registration is not compulsory), there are no previous wills in existence and no-one else knows of the existence of this will, the person tearing up the will is likely to get away with it. However, the risk they would take in tearing up the will is that there is another copy somewhere and they will be found out.

If there is a copy with the solicitor, the survivor will be able to find out by asking local solicitors or getting a will search.

But only the original copy counts so if they tore it up that's a problem.

@Mosaic123

But only the original copy counts so if they tore it up that's a problem.

Not true. The original is preferred but a copy can be used if the original has been lost or destroyed.

This is very interesting...I think I've watched too much Poirot. I reckon there must be loads of situations where someone knows they are not going to like what is in the will and therefore tries to make sure that the will isn't found / followed. I was just musing after reading a thread on here the other day about how possible it would be in practice to effectively make the will 'disappear'. I guess as the will maker you would just have to make sure you had several copies lodged with different people and on the register, if you made just one and it was a potential beneficiary that held it, it sounds a bit risky (unless you wanted that person to inherit).

I used to work in a job that involved distributing employment death benefits, and the grabbiness / underhandedness of some people when there was a lot of money involved was really quite awful!

This is interesting. My parents made a will about 30 years ago. They don't know who is holding it (it was made by Midlands bank, who sold and then that bank was sold, etc.). They don't want the terms of it to be applied and it's outdated (all children grown up, their parents are now dead, etc.). They have applied for new wills but they're not done yet. I presume the onus would be on me to find the old will and act accordingly, despite knowing they wouldn't want what it says to be applied?

I'm afraid it would, yes. However, if the old wills genuinely cannot be found you would usually deal with their estate as if they had died without ever making a will.

Thanks @prh47bridge

I think you should register wills with the probate office. So when a person dies their registry is searched for a will. So no one can tear it up or have to check with every solicitor within miles to find out.

I made a will several years ago and a copy left with the solicitor.
However I made a new one last year with a different firm of solicitors and asked if I should get the old one back and they said it wasnt necessary. I did concern me a bit as I thought what if no one new about the new will and the other one surfaced. Probably overthinking things

Fascinating insight. I have wondered about how you would find a copy held by someone else especially as firms go bust/get taken over. Leaving it with a solicitor has always sounded like something out of Agatha Christie - where everyone is upper middlrnclass and naturally has a family solicitor and personal bank manager!

Two random questions I have: what if an estate is dealt with but later an newer will is found? And is it still possible to do a verbal death bed will (nuncupative I think they were called)?

I work with intestacy. Wills have to be absolutely ironclad or they are invalid.

I had one case where the gentleman knew he was near the end of his life and so he instructed his solicitor to draw up his will. It was sitting on his dining table as he died, but before he had got round to signing it.

Every single word and wish in that carefully constructed document was now irrelevant as without a signature, it was legally worthless.

His estate was distributed per intestacy law.

This has been bothering me too. My husband died recently. His will left everything to me and l am executor. I have dealt with everything and things are now in my name. I have done nothing at all with the will itself. But how would, for example , the cats home know if he had left something to them and l had not told them.

So important for everyone to do a Will - and possible to discuss your intentions with those who will be left to distribute or act as executor.

And not necessarily be trusting of your co-executors (are you listening DH?) as they might not be the honest, trustworthy people they set themselves up to be. As an executor, you have a legal responsibility to act upon the word of the Will, not your interpretation of it.

I always wonder about things like this too - to add another question:

I was recently left an inheritance (I was sole executor) and I paid all the beneficiaries as instructed by the will and kept all the accounts etc. No problem.

One of the beneficiaries was my very young child for quite a hefty sum. It was left “in trust” to child until they are 21 I think. But there wasn’t actually a trust set up by the deceased or any one else involved so I assumed it was up to me to keep that money safe - and I have done and will do.

But who would know if I didn’t?
Child wouldn’t know; they were a baby when they inherited and I was so executor so no one else saw the will. Although some older family know the details - I expect sadly by time DC is old enough to understand the meaning of a trust then these family members will be gone.

So who’s to know? If I took DC money and spent it? No one would know he was meant to inherit it other than me????

Who is going to check? It troubles me that this could be happening to people!

This is why you must choose your executors carefully - someone you absolutely trust.

We've since made mirror wills and made each other our executors, but DH's previous will infuriated me as while I inherited everything, he made his DM executor. I felt like he didn't trust me and wanted his mother to have control.

I've been through probate three times in the past few years, and it was really eye-opening in how much the whole process relies on individuals close to the deceased to do the work.

I have a fairly hair raising story.

My mum died a couple of years ago, and her ex=boyfriend (who was abusive, and still living in the house she owned) had basically forced her to make a will naming him as sole heir. She managed to sneak out of the house and make a new will in secret, naming me as sole heir, which was left with a local solicitor. She told me about it and even gave me a card for the solicitor but I didn't pay much attention because she was only in her 60s.

She died the following spring, bloke found the old will, but I knew there was a newer will. I had to pull some proper Secret Squirrel shit (turning up on the doorstep, barging in, convincing him to let me 'borrow' her phone to inform relatives, then using her phone to gain entry to her email account) to find out where the new will was held.

When I called them they were clearly expecting my call, so I'm not sure what would have happened if I'd not called them.

@Lougle

This is interesting. My parents made a will about 30 years ago. They don't know who is holding it (it was made by Midlands bank, who sold and then that bank was sold, etc.). They don't want the terms of it to be applied and it's outdated (all children grown up, their parents are now dead, etc.). They have applied for new wills but they're not done yet. I presume the onus would be on me to find the old will and act accordingly, despite knowing they wouldn't want what it says to be applied?

HSBC took on all the wills held with Midland. They’ll be held with the central Wills team.

Or if they were just in ‘safe keeping’ they will have been transferred to central safe keeping as they don’t hold much of anything in the individual branches now.

My Aunty left me her house. She told me she’d made a will. After her death the will wasn’t in the house. I called local solicitors but they didn’t have a will on record for her. So the house went to her brother as her next of kin and I got nothing.

@Marmite27

pressreleases.responsesource.com/news/88280/open-letter-to-anyone-who-made-a-will-with-hsbc/

According to this, HSBC sold off their will department in 2015. My parents can't even remember if they appointed executors or asked the bank to be. They've had a very difficult couple of decades and neither can really cope with paperwork.

It is such a flaw in the system, I'm surprised it hasn't been overhauled. We had the same - Great Nana who we loved very much and visited several times a week promised me and my siblings all sorts of things in her will.

My auntie who hated her and never visited got everything as her next of kin (we were just great grandchildren) and said no will existed. We couldn't dispute it as didn't know anymore and obviously my Great Nana could have been making promises she didn't intend to keep but it is still odd that it can happen.

@terrywynne there was a post quite recently wondering about making a claim on a Will after an estate had already been (possibly wrongly) distributed.

www.harrison-drury.com/wills-and-probate-update/what-happens-if-a-valid-will-is-found-after-the-administration-of-an-estate/