No completion certificate for extension

[WalkinginMemphis2]

Tearing my hair out!

We had small kitchen extension done 7yrs ago, all above board sought planning/building regs, ended up being a permitted development due to size. But we paid for the local authority inspection package, plans signed off etc. And used a very reputable local builder.

All fine no problems. V happy with end builder. DH dealt with all the council stuff and I dealt with builders and water company and electric provider.

Anyway coming to sell we have a raft of paper work from LA, gas safe for new boiler and NEIC for electrics but no 'completion certificate' this is the first I've ever heard of such a thing. Although reading through all the stuff we bought a package that was supposed to cover this.

Buyer's sol being difficult, we have set them everything we have and can both remember someone from local auth coming round at various points and have been back in touch with builder who has confirmed yes he would have arranged all this. Like I said v v reputable builder with big waiting list so I have no reason to think he wouldn't have booked in all the inspections. But we just don't have this damned bit of paper.

Here's the kicker tho, the remedial action if all parties amiable is insurance, which yes we know and would be quite happy to pay for but understand this doesn't solve the issue. However for that to be an option

we're not allowed to check with the council to see if its all being done and it was merely a case if us not having ever requested the cert. As neither of us knew we needed one (well DH would have done if he'd have read the bustard letter properly). Or the inspection has never been done as this prejudices the propective insurance policy apparently. We've paid for it i know that bloody much as have the invoice and receipt!

Any one had anything similar either as a buyer or seller? I'm so upset we're just not normally the sort of people who don't do things properly.

Everything online comes from the position of the seller having done it on the QT and never having got planning/building control from the outset - but thats not the case here, we have absolutely loads of documentation from the LA regarding it so went down proper channels and a full planning ref (which suspiciously the 3 isn't coming up on the planning portal but we've been told it should) even have two sets of plans with big approved stamps on, just not this particular document. And apparently if we want to get it checked retrospectively they would have to dismantle it and have itre-built.WTAHsurely that's madness?!?

Like I said builder v reputable and popular and I just can't see him not having done this , he arranged for and counter signed the electectrical cert stuff and the gas safe one even though he sub contracted these bits, so I can't imagine he would have ever not followed the building control process.

Surely there's got to be something we can do as we have followed the proper process so far as we knew and have loads of documentation to prove that.

Just pay for the indemnity insurance. Your buyers will be able to see that everything is in order apart from the certificate. It’s part of the hoop-jumping house-selling madness, imo.

@NameChangedForAChange I'm happy to that but if the buyer's as astute as I think he is in not sure whether this would be enough....I'm not sure it would be for me actually. I just can't believe we're not allowed to check as it could we all have bern done!

If you think your buyer will accept insurance then do that but if not you should phone the council who will have kept records. They don't tend to give certificates unless requested. You may have needed to submit gas & electrical sign off. Do you have these?

@Fireflygal yep got those and builder organised them - we wouldn't have known to do it so can't see there being anyway he wouldn't have done the inspections as well.

That's what we think, its all been done Nd signed off - which really is the important thing in the real world, its just we never requested the cert. Which now you've said that is making me think more and more this is the case!

I have done lots of builds. Never once had it sent, always had to request.

We've been the buyer in this position. We required the seller to pay for indemnity insurance. Two lots of insurance IIRC as they had no proof of having obtained some sort of permission from the estate developer. Our solicitor also advised us not to check with the council first. It didn't cause any problems with the purchase, or since.

When we had an extension done, our builder arranged and facilitated all the building regs inspections during the works but then it was up to us to arrange the final sign off inspection and certificate was issued following that. I'm not sure anyone would have told us, we asked the builder about it and he said we just do that bit ourselves.
Afraid I've got no advice about the insurance other than could you purchase the policy and then check if council could sign off now if they still have notes from inspections they did at the time? Obviously that wouldn't save you money for the insurance but might help the sale go through. Obviously you'd need to take advice from your solicitor about whether to do that or not!

Why are you "not allowed" to contact the council? We've recently been in touch with the council to get the certificate for our 5 yr old extension, had to pay £50 for them to get the file out of storage, but then the buildings inspector came round, signed it off and emailed the certificate. We were in a slightly different position because (a) we're not selling; and (b) we knew we didn't have the certificate, but it was all pretty easy.

@Bramshott

I believe it's because the council would be the body taking any enforcement action so if you've alerted them to a potential problem you won't be able to get indemnity insurance.

Ah I see... That feels like a flaw in the system!

@Bramshott bloody massive flaw isn't it, I have a suspicion if we could just check it'd all be sorted speedily.

If the purchaser will accept indemnity insurance I would get it ASAP
The buyer is not being difficult
Lots of people would insist on the Completion certificate

@user1487194234 oh no I don't think they are and I have no problem with sorting and paying for the insurance.i would much rather just get it all sorted properly and speak to the LA it just seems madness that we can't just do that.

Look on the Council planning portal and it should say if any building regs are complete or outstanding. We never had a completion certificate. It was signed off online. Had an electric P cert and boiler paperwork only.

Even the build over the sewer paperwork went from the H2O provider to the council after we paid for the camera report. We had no copy as it was part of the process. Once signed off this is your confirmation.

I'm selling and I don't have a certificate, they did inspect though, told us what needed to be done, I informed them the work was complete and the email basically said thanks for letting us know! No I didn't keep the email.

There seems to some confusion here that I come across often as a LA Planning Manager. Building Control and development are clearly linked but operate under different regimes.

If you built the extension under permitted development, the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 is the ‘authority’ that permits that development without a planning application. See Class A specifies the conditions and limitations that apply.

Secondly, the extension would be immune from enforcement action 4 years after it was completed if the LA took no formal action during that time. See S171 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 (as amended). You would know if they did take action because you’d have been served with a formal enforcement notice.

For peace of mind, householders often apply for a Certificate of Lawful Development / Lawful Development Certificate to document that the development is lawful. Sometimes people apply for the certificate before doing the build, and others after. Doesn’t really matter, but it’s to provide verification in exactly these situations.

The application process can take 6 weeks though, and may be time you don’t have re the house sale. A simple google search will outline the above, as long as you have documentation to show when the extension was built. In assessing LDC applications, google earth images etc may suffice.

The key point that might help to stress is that a Completion Certificate is a building control document, not a planning document. Planning is to do with the built development and Building Control relates to the structural safety of the built.

Frigglet that's so helpful and the key point seems to be that 4-years post completion and no enforcement action means the OP just needs to call the council and ask where her cert is, with impunity.

@frigglet

I suspect the OP isn't concerned about planning but building regulations. As you will be aware council departments often don't communicate.

Happy to help, it can be tricky to get your head round, especially when hit with it during house-buying/selling process, which is already stressful.

The Certificate of Lawful Development isn’t issued automatically, so needs to be applied for. It’s the process to receive the confirmation that the development is lawful that takes time. Also worth mentioning that the application for the CLD/LDC needs to include documentary evidence from the applicant. The onus is on the applicant to provide that evidence and the Planning Officer will only review what’s included with the application. If you’re lucky - and the PO is minded to - the PO may undertake desk research such as google earth and/or review the planning history for the property. That would typically include Building Control records, and may reference the date of the Completion Certificate as evidence that at least 4 years has indeed passed.

In my earlier post, I forgot to mention that the OP mentioned something about potentially having to knock down and rebuild the extension? To respond to that bit, because aside from the immunity aspects I’ve already outlined, development without planning permission is not an offence in and of itself. S173 of The Act allows planning consent to be obtained retrospectively and only if consent is refused and the build awful would enforcement potentially escalate to requirement to demolish the extension.

Hope that helps OP and others to understand a bit more. The planning process can be quite overwhelming and potential buyers understandably and rightly take an over cautious approach - because importantly the responsibility for resolving a breach rests with the current land owner at the time when enforcement action is taken. Don’t let this bit scare you though please. I only included it to help with broader understanding of planning and planning enforcement.

It’s true that council departments often don’t communicate, and I’ve not suggested otherwise. Certainly some councils coordinate building control / planning better than others. On reading the OP, I interpreted that certification for the planning aspect is being requested.

I’ve tried to offer an explanation to her OP and others to understand what is often confusing and misunderstood. I can see that at least one poster has found the info helpful. If OP needs further info or clarification, I’m sure she can ask.

I interpreted that certification for the planning aspect is being requested.

I think it's the Buildings control completion certificate.

As you have kindly highlighted for OP, a certificate of lawful development for an extension done under Permitted Development some years ago isn't legally required. So long as the work falls within PD, that's fine.

So she needs her completion cert from Building Control.

OP: this would have been automatically generated after the final inspection, and either posted or emailed to you. Sometimes there's a hold-up - maybe something was missing from the file, such as the structural engineer's calculations, or the electrical certificate. In which case, the completion certificate wouldn't have been generated. If nobody followed it up, it's all just been sitting waiting. You MUST JUST call the Building Control team of the local council and ask them to look it up. The building would never be knocked down - the worst would be a visit from an inspector to check it over (from a construction point of view).

As you say it was a reputable building company, I'm sure it has been registered and inspected. This will be some clerical issue v most likely.

This is not a big deal. Call them first thing Monday.

I've never known someone not allowed to call the council, surely they're public servants who have a job to do, not demi gods.
Ring building control, request certificate. Finished.

I lost my completion certificate for an extension built 15yrs previously when I sold. I just phoned the council and they popped a copy of it in the post to me. No charge. Have you tried that OP?

The issue is that if you contact the council then you can’t get Indemnity insurance
So it is a risk
They might say no problem will pop a copy out in the post,problem solved
But they might say you didn’t do the paperwork so a CC was not issued

If the purchaser is willing to accept indemnity insurance then that is the way to go
However have you checked the council website to see if a CC was granted

Sorry OP. i realise that I’d separated out the planning and building stuff in my head and not written it all here. Apologies for any confusion - I have a planning head and my BC cap slipped off it. I meant to outline BC but instead went on about planning enforcement, which wasn’t the plan. I was up and travelling late last night and on the road early today (work related) but is no excuse.

You could contact the council snd ask generally if they provide copies of BC Completion Certs - they will do, but there’s likely to be a charge for that.

Some councils will do the planning checks against BC queries, and vv which is what I should have explained and intended to set out yesterday.