If a civil court...

[TheSlideRule]

If the other party asks for a court order demanding that I hand over my mobile phone (it is me making the civil claim) do I have to hand it over in it's entirety?

I'm self employed and terrified that, after an already difficult year business-wise I will lose all of my income.

In addition, my father passed away and my phone holds my last text from him. And the first photograph of me holding my Granddaughter.

To be clear, the court is not interested in telephone calls, apps or anything else, they want access to my phone photos. They have already had the relevant photos in their bundle and I have sent them again. I honestly don't know what they think they will find by having the phone.

DH says that if they ask for my phone my barrister should push back most forcefully, not least of all because they have everything.

I'm the injured party, my claim is sound and I'm not prepared to hand over my phone without good cause.

Please be kind in your responses, I've just spent two sleepless nights and most of the time in tears with worry.

Thank you.

I'd imagine they're trying to see when the photos were taken. Sometimes when you email photos from your phone the metadata isn't available.

I've never known the other party ask for an actual phone (and I'm a litigation solicitor). And, just because they ask for it, doesn't mean they'll get it. When is the Application hearing?

In their Application it will state why they want the phone. What's their reasoning? Do you have a solicitor, or have you instructed a Barrister via direct access?

I have a solicitor, who has appointed a barrister.

Metadata is removed from my photos as a matter of course.

They haven't applied for my phone yet. Given that the case was slated to be heard late last year and then again this month, but has been pushed back because of Covid, they have left it rather late in the day to ask for this.

NoWordForFluffy I must apologise, I didn't say thank you - but thank you.

Why is metadata removed? Sometimes it's vital to be able to access it in legal cases. I have a case now that I wasn't prepared to continue with unless I had the photos' metadata.

They must have said why they want the phone to your solicitor, bearing in mind they've told you they're going to apply for it. It's all very odd!

When you go into your camera roll does it put the date above the photo as to when it was taken?

(I'm going down a metadata wormhole as it's the only thing I can think of that they're after.)

Can I ask what the photos are of?

That's OK. ☺️

I'm intrigued by their request (which they're clearly not THAT arsed about if they've not applied yet, as App hearings take place on the phone as a matter of course, so aren't affected by Covid like Trials are).

Can you copy or transfer your important personal stuff to another device?

@VettiyaIruken

Can you copy or transfer your important personal stuff to another device?

I would do this anyway, you don't know when you might lose/ break/ have your phone stolen.

Also a litigation solicitor. Are they suggesting you've not disclosed everything and want you to appoint someone to check your phone? I can imagine a scenario like that - in a case of mine the other party sought an order that my client appoint an expert to search their laptops (this was before electronic disclosure was as it is now).

NoWordForFluffy I delete Metadata because I have a job which requires me to be under the radar.

kirinm I have no idea what they are suggesting as they haven't asked for the device yet. If they ask I will presumably know.

Btw I it was not my solicitor who suggested this, it was one of their junior's, so it may be that there is no request.

We do have a new court date, if they do want to ask for my phone and check it they are going to have to be pretty sharpish about it.

Applications can be made at any point but the courts get pretty pissed off if they are made late and risk the trial date having to be adjourned. Just because there is a trial date doesn't mean they won't get an order. I'm not sure I'm following what's going on with your case though.

If a third party told me they were going to apply for my client's phone, I'd expect them to also tell me why. The reason for this is that my client needs to be given the opportunity to agree to the request without the need for an Application (we're honour bound to keep costs to a minimum, so we shouldn't be applying for anything without asking for it first). You'd then advise your client / take instructions depending on why the request was being made, and if it was reasonable (or capable of the aim being met a different way which we were more happy with).

I can only think that your claim is supported by photos potentially showing something which you said was like it shows in your photos at the time the tort occurred. The other side deny that what is shown in your photos is how whatever it shows was at the time. Hence wanting to see when you took the photos.

Lack of metadata is an issue, potentially.

Well, there is no Metadata - and that's how it is.

The things they are asking about will not, I don't think, influence the case as the facts are clear.

I was taken to hospital and the time evidence there is clearly written up. Any later time scales would only prove what I have already said, which is that the photos were taken by others and sent to me when I was already in hospital.

It was not my solicitor who told me about the other party requesting my phone. It was his junior, so this could be purely speculative on his part.

If this does arise the request will come directly from my solicitor who, I assume, will give me the opportunity to surrender the phone without the other party making recourse to the courts. At this time I will talk this through with my solicitor, who should be able to explain everything more clearly to me. That includes why.

The other side are suggesting that, to use the car accident example, I jumped up out of my car to take photographs at a time when the ambulance had already arrived and they were trying to move me but I couldn't walk.

The photographs were sent to me by witnesses.

I'm aware that just because there is a court date, doesn't mean that it can't be moved. Again.

As somebody else says, your phone could break at any time - so it is never a good idea to have sentimental photos and messages ONLY on the phone, get them copied off to another device for safekeeping.

I'm not sure what the concern is with losing business/trade, you can copy all your contacts to a safe place; and if they do take the phone, you can get another phone & SIM and transfer your existing phone number to the new one.

@TheSlideRule

Well, there is no Metadata - and that's how it is.

The things they are asking about will not, I don't think, influence the case as the facts are clear.

I was taken to hospital and the time evidence there is clearly written up. Any later time scales would only prove what I have already said, which is that the photos were taken by others and sent to me when I was already in hospital.

It was not my solicitor who told me about the other party requesting my phone. It was his junior, so this could be purely speculative on his part.

If this does arise the request will come directly from my solicitor who, I assume, will give me the opportunity to surrender the phone without the other party making recourse to the courts. At this time I will talk this through with my solicitor, who should be able to explain everything more clearly to me. That includes why.

The other side are suggesting that, to use the car accident example, I jumped up out of my car to take photographs at a time when the ambulance had already arrived and they were trying to move me but I couldn't walk.

The photographs were sent to me by witnesses.

I'm aware that just because there is a court date, doesn't mean that it can't be moved. Again.

I'd be very surprised if you had to give your phone to anyone but an independent expert of some sort to be honest. Certainly wouldn't give it to the other side. I'm sure you'll be advised properly. Would you let us know what happens?

They seem to have got their knickers in a twist about something. If you do find out what their problem is, I'd be interested to know!

Of course I will come back and let you know.

I agree that it would be an expert via the other solicitors, but I'm not thrilled that this may be requested.

Yes, I know I need to back up my phone. It's long been on my 'must do' list but it never gets done. It would seem that the time is now.

Thanks everyone, as it wasn't a direct request from my solicitor I'm going to put it to the back of my mind for now. I'm tempted to get an iPad (I only own a kindle now) so I'd like one anyway. Maybe it's time for the iPad.

Yes, I know I need to back up my phone. It's long been on my 'must do' list but it never gets done. It would seem that the time is now.

As a really quick fix take a screenshot of the text and email it and the photo to yourself. See if you can store the contact details in the cloud rather than on the phone/sim. Do it tonight then tomorrow find a longer term solution.

The photographs were sent to me by witnesses

So they didn't even originate on your phone ?

They need the witnesses phones then.

As an aside, metadata can be trivially modified. It' not something I would rely on solely to make a case.

No, nor would I. But it's something that - in conjunction with witness / medical evidence - can support a case to give it sufficient prospects of success to be able to continue on a CFA. But thanks for the unnecessary lesson.