Police / Lawyer Legal advice urgently needed please 🙏🏽

[Newfor2021]

Hello,
I’d greatly appreciate any advice from someone with a professional background who might be able to offer any advice in these circumstances please?

My son was caught driving his car as a learner driver without a responsible driver / supervisor.

As he’s 17 they de-arrested him at the scene, brought him home, told me (I’d been asleep) and have now fixed an interview date for Wednesday.

My question is there are some mitigating circumstances which will support his reasons as to why he was driving.
Should he just verbalise them in the interview or should he prepare a written statement beforehand? He could also ask some of the people involved to write supporting testimonies - again should he just say these people are prepared to do this or should we gather these before Wednesday?

Thank you in advance for any professional guidance.

A few questions I suspect I will get asked:

He’s planning to plead guilty and at the time apologised profusely and immediately stated why he was going and where he was driving to.

I was going to use the duty solicitor - however I have been advised to ignore their advice to go ‘No comment’ as this will only annoy the police and stop them having the ability to go more lenient on him.

I am in no way supporting or condoning his behaviour!
I am of course dealing with the consequences of his actions - however my child is in his first ever legal trouble and as his mum I will do everything in my power to help and support him from obtaining a criminal record at 17 - as believe it or not he wants to join the police force and this would of course stop him!

It's "not impossible" a really close look over the arrest might throw up facts that could invalidate a prosecution. However we would be looking at tens of thousands of pounds minimum without guarantee.

The OP has had the best advice there is - get a solicitor that they are paying for onto the case. However they also need to be prepared for this only to result in the lowest sentence possible rather than some magic acquittal like what you see on TV.

Thanks everyone for the comments, I really appreciate the advice.

Now I’m aware he’s entitled to legal aid (thanks to Froggie) that’s what I’ll do and I expect go with whatever their suggestion is.

I’m guessing I just google legal aid criminal solicitor (insert my local area)?!!

@Bargebill19

Check to see if you have legal cover/help on any of your insurance policies or road side assistance cover. They may help.

Ahhh brilliant!! I have it on my home insurance! Thank you! I’d totally forgotten this, it’s like I’ve been so stressed by all this I’ve had brain fog about how to logically approach this.

@ProfessorSlocombe

It's "not impossible" a really close look over the arrest might throw up facts that could invalidate a prosecution. However we would be looking at tens of thousands of pounds minimum without guarantee.

The OP has had the best advice there is - get a solicitor that they are paying for onto the case. However they also need to be prepared for this only to result in the lowest sentence possible rather than some magic acquittal like what you see on TV.

Thank you.

I’ very realistic of what the worse case scenario is, and know that no matter what he’s not getting away with nothing and walking out with no consequences!

However if this can be reduced to a fine / community service / driving licence withdrawal and points rather than a criminal record then of course we will do everything in our power to try for this.

How ironic that you being responsible enough to have insurance can help you in a situation like this.....

If he pleads guilty to the offence he gets a criminal record OP. The court will then determine the punishment which as you say could be a fine or community service, but he will still have a criminal record either way.

@toomanyplants

How ironic that you being responsible enough to have insurance can help you in a situation like this.....

Well luckily as I’m not 17 I’m not a complete idiot unlike my son!

@Sanchez79

If he pleads guilty to the offence he gets a criminal record OP. The court will then determine the punishment which as you say could be a fine or community service, but he will still have a criminal record either way.

Oh really?!

Ahh.... ok thanks!

Yes we really do need some expert legal advice.

Once again thanks everyone.

Is he taking any responsibility for sorting this?

I don't subscribe to the Mumsnet thing about not helping older children I would help my children no matter what stupid thing they'd done, no matter how old they were. But it seems like you are the one running around worrying about this. This is his fuck up, he should be the one sorting out a solicitor (with your guidance, if needs be) unless he has additional needs which prevent him from doing so! Is he even looking into how he can fix this?

Someone who knows better than me can clarify I'm sure but I think if he has his licence taken/point added/ accepts a caution he still has a record! Cautions just aren't declarable after a certain time except for some professions. You still would need to declare it to be a police officer and I don't know if you'd get far.

However if this can be reduced to a fine / community service / driving licence withdrawal and points rather than a criminal record then of course we will do everything in our power to try for this.

You really need to understand that the only way not to get a criminal record is to somehow be found innocent and acquitted. And the chances of that for Joe Public are nil.

I know of a 17 year old that this happened to and they got a two year ban. She is in a very respectable profession now and is one of the kindest, most sensible people that I know.

I am not going to join in calling your ds names or saying how stupid it was- that’s a pointless contribution.

I hope you get a solicitor sorted and you take proper legal advice before your son says anything in a statement. I hope that you have some support too as it can’t be easy for you.

Yes one of dd's sixth form school friends did this and got a fine and a two year ban as well.

Like pp has stated he was caught bang to rights...there is noway he will not have a criminal record...automatic disqualification and fine...sadly i have a twat for a son too🙄

@springtimesunshine

Is he taking any responsibility for sorting this?

I don't subscribe to the Mumsnet thing about not helping older children I would help my children no matter what stupid thing they'd done, no matter how old they were. But it seems like you are the one running around worrying about this. This is his fuck up, he should be the one sorting out a solicitor (with your guidance, if needs be) unless he has additional needs which prevent him from doing so! Is he even looking into how he can fix this?

Someone who knows better than me can clarify I'm sure but I think if he has his licence taken/point added/ accepts a caution he still has a record! Cautions just aren't declarable after a certain time except for some professions. You still would need to declare it to be a police officer and I don't know if you'd get far.

Thank you.

Yes he is, I’ve just text him letting him know what people have said here and asked if he wants help finding one tomorrow. I agree that it’s his mess and he did an adult thing, and needs to sort this himself.

@ProfessorSlocombe

However if this can be reduced to a fine / community service / driving licence withdrawal and points rather than a criminal record then of course we will do everything in our power to try for this.

You really need to understand that the only way not to get a criminal record is to somehow be found innocent and acquitted. And the chances of that for Joe Public are nil.

Thanks

Do not use a duty solicitor.

In short, duty solicitor advised to plead not guilty, defendant was a high earner, she tried to charge £120 an hour and said the case would take a minimum of 40 hours. She was rude and pushy, had done no work on the case and quoted the cost 2 weeks before the hearing. I got in touch with a local solicitor that specialised in motoring offences and she was horrified, she said there is no way her client would not have a clue about the court process/case etc 2 weeks before. She charged a fixed fee of about £500 and got an amazing outcome. She’s based in Cheshire, can find her details if you want OP?

@Donkeydonut

I know of a 17 year old that this happened to and they got a two year ban. She is in a very respectable profession now and is one of the kindest, most sensible people that I know.

I am not going to join in calling your ds names or saying how stupid it was- that’s a pointless contribution.

I hope you get a solicitor sorted and you take proper legal advice before your son says anything in a statement. I hope that you have some support too as it can’t be easy for you.

Thank you so much for your kind words, that gave me a bit of wobble as I’m going through hell with this but focusing on keeping it all together and manage my own emotions. Luckily I have amazing family inc a sister who I’m very close to. ❤️ People like you are what makes Mumsnet so special!

@hiredandsqueak

Yes one of dd's sixth form school friends did this and got a fine and a two year ban as well.

Thank you for sharing!

Someone who knows better than me can clarify I'm sure but I think if he has his licence taken/point added/ accepts a caution he still has a record! Cautions just aren't declarable after a certain time except for some professions. You still would need to declare it to be a police officer and I don't know if you'd get far.

My advice would be to try and find out what the chances are of a juvenile conviction affecting joining the police and have that in my mind before Wednesday. Because it's hard to see any other outcome than a caution at the very least.

The OP should also be aware that there may be more than one offence being discussed - there is the driving without supervision, but that automatically would mean driving without insurance. So there's the possibility of dropping one charge in order to pursue another.

Personally, I'm curious as to what prompted the stop in the first place ? The OP hasn't quite mentioned that. Did their DS commit a moving traffic offence ? Was there something that caused the officers to suspect something ? And - crucially - what has DS already told the police ?

I'd suggest these are all things the OP needs to know. And know for real. Because it's no use trying to pursue one tack if the DS has already queered the pitch. Which - sorry to say - happens an awful l ot with teenagers.

@CantBeAssed

Like pp has stated he was caught bang to rights...there is noway he will not have a criminal record...automatic disqualification and fine...sadly i have a twat for a son too🙄

Haha I’m glad I’m not the only one!!

I hope your son is in a better place now and not causing you this kind of stress

@Stinkerbells

Do not use a duty solicitor.

In short, duty solicitor advised to plead not guilty, defendant was a high earner, she tried to charge £120 an hour and said the case would take a minimum of 40 hours. She was rude and pushy, had done no work on the case and quoted the cost 2 weeks before the hearing. I got in touch with a local solicitor that specialised in motoring offences and she was horrified, she said there is no way her client would not have a clue about the court process/case etc 2 weeks before. She charged a fixed fee of about £500 and got an amazing outcome. She’s based in Cheshire, can find her details if you want OP?

Thank you. That’s great to hear first hand experience and yes I’d love the details thank you

@ProfessorSlocombe

Someone who knows better than me can clarify I'm sure but I think if he has his licence taken/point added/ accepts a caution he still has a record! Cautions just aren't declarable after a certain time except for some professions. You still would need to declare it to be a police officer and I don't know if you'd get far.

My advice would be to try and find out what the chances are of a juvenile conviction affecting joining the police and have that in my mind before Wednesday. Because it's hard to see any other outcome than a caution at the very least.

The OP should also be aware that there may be more than one offence being discussed - there is the driving without supervision, but that automatically would mean driving without insurance. So there's the possibility of dropping one charge in order to pursue another.

Personally, I'm curious as to what prompted the stop in the first place ? The OP hasn't quite mentioned that. Did their DS commit a moving traffic offence ? Was there something that caused the officers to suspect something ? And - crucially - what has DS already told the police ?

I'd suggest these are all things the OP needs to know. And know for real. Because it's no use trying to pursue one tack if the DS has already queered the pitch. Which - sorry to say - happens an awful l ot with teenagers.

Thank you for your thoughts and advice.

I believe the charges will be: driving without someone, insurance as you said (although this wasn’t mentioned) and running from Police (I know it gets worse!)

They stopped him as a random stop as he was driving in our local town at 1am. He wasn’t driving recklessly. Until he decided to abandon the car and run that is.

He was caught within 10 mins, and besides they had his friend and it was obviously his car 🙄🙄🙄

You know your son best. If you think that he would be better being guided through this process by you then stick with that. People who are being hard on this thread are not going to have to live with a young man's regrets for a lifetime like you are.

There are so many things I did as a 16/17 year old that did not lead to a conviction 30+ years ago that I do feel bad for your son.

I wasn't a criminal or anything but car offences were def there - and they were "just a laugh" - or so I thought at the time. With maturity comes an awareness of what harm those decisions could have made and teen brains are simply not mature enough.

So, basically, no judgement here, and although he should not have done it and there could have been bad implications if he'd had an accident, he's 17 and I hope this does not ruin his future.

Not trying to ask for details, but for those who "can't imagine what mitigating circumstances there could be", one scenario that springs to mind is being out with friends who were supposed to be giving you a lift home, only the driver is drunk and won't be persuaded to get a taxi; so in desperation you suggest that you should drive instead.