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Do I have a case for medical negligence?

13 replies

HarleyQuinn21 · 03/03/2021 16:31

Hi all, It's a really really long one, sorry for the war and peace essay. I was just wondering if we had a case or if I have misplaced anger, I don't want to waste anyone's time like solicitors or whatever but I also don't want this to happen to anyone elses family if it can be avoided, I'll bullet point as it's a very long horrible story:- My dad was breathless, couldn't sleep and had chest pain. (At the beginning, not sure if this is relevent) •My dad (77 years old) got poorly in January, breathlessness and was sent for a scan on a Friday, on the Tuesday doctor rung up and said you need to go to hospital we think it may be covid related as you have fluid on your lungs, we'll send an emergency ambulance, 4 hours later no ambulance so I rung asking if I should just take him up to the hospital and they said no, an hour later ambulance people called him and said they agree it sounds covid related and asked if a family member could drive him up to hospital (risking family member to covid), so I drove him up and they sat him in a&e (risking other people to covid since they said that's what they thought it was), A&E did some tests and also said they thought it was covid related and sent him home, wouldn't treat him and it took us four days to get him a test which came back as negative so we called doctor's and they did the same thing with the ambulance and then they didn't take him. •My dad got worse so he went for a blood test at the doctor's, doctor rung up and said they were bad and he needed to go to the hospital and again, they said they'll sent an emergency ambulance who didn't take him so we took him up to the hospital ourselves and they admitted him, they found out he had heart failure but blamed his breathlessness and sleeplessness on anxiety and said that the doctor's were making it sound worse than it was so they'd take him in hospital, he was fine otherwise, my dad came home with medication but was a lot worse state than when he went in, he had fluid on his legs and could barely walk but they still realeased him, he also had terrible thursh in his mouth. • My dad got worse so we took him to the hospital again where he was put on another ward who said the same, heart failure and they were going to give him fluid - he was treated so badly that he called me every 5 minutes to say I needed to come pick him up or he was going to kill himself, I rung the ward who said he was fine, he didn't want to leave and to ignore him. My dad rung again and I told him to call a nurse, he rung his buzzer and a nurse came 15 minutes later and was quite rude to him (I was on the phone and she didn't know) I told him to put her on and she told me she'd get someone in charge to ring me back, I waited another hour or so with my dad ringing me every 5-10 minutes or so telling me the same thing so I eventually went up to the hospital and they wouldn't let me up (understandable with covid) but they also wouldnt bring him down and he couldn't get down himself so they were keeping him against his will in a way, eventually a doctor came to see me in the waiting room and said they'll give him some tablets and I could pick them up later and he could go home, later on I received a call but missed it so I called the ward back and a nurse answered saying he has no medication there and it was nothing to do with the ward so we spent half an hour calling round trying to figure out where the call came from and where we needed to go etc but couldn't find anywhere else so we called the ward again to see if they had any idea and the same woman answered and was quite rude saying she had already told me its nothing to do with them and they don't have my dad's medication, luckily another nurse over heard her and informed her that they actually do have the medication and we can come pick it up, my husband went and they led him to the ward to pick it up, the same ward they wouldn't let us get my dad because of covid .. • the next day the hospital called and asked me to take my dad back in for fluid, promised he wouldn't be on the ward that made him want to kill himself but he needed a few days in hospital for fluid, they called 3 hours later asking me to pick him up and I found him in a wheelchair next to the revolving door in his hospital gown absolutely freezing (as he couldn't walk) so that make me angry as they could have brought him down when I got there keeping him warm, when I got him home I found that they had left all the IV needles in. •He was taken into the hospital again the next day and was on AMUB for a day or so and was sent home with different medication. He spent a week at home and he became really confused, like think dementia confused and was in a lot of pain so we called the ambulance who did his stats and said he was fine, I was there and said are you joking you only need to look at him to know he isn't fine and then they did his blood pressure on his other arm which showed it was extremely low so they took him in, they were sat outside the house for about an hour doing paperwork so we were under the impression that it wasn't that bad, then that morning we got a call at 3am ish to say that he was very poorly, they are taking him to the CCU but they don't expect him to make it and they'll call us to come and say goodbye as it's not just his heart but his kidneys and liver is affected and basically he's going into organ failure. He was in the CCU and the treatment actually started working and he was moved to a ward so I called them and they told me he was clinically stable and they said he isn't dying. The next day they said they were transferring him to a kidney specialist hospital thing soon and whatever so I rung the day after and they said he was too poorly to be transferred as he had suspected sepsis so we left it a couple of days. A couple of days later a doctor rung me and said he doesn't have sepsis, it's not his kidney or liver and that it's just his heart so they're gonna give him medication through an IV and then when he's strong enough they are gonna send him home with oral tablets and he's okay she even said he wasn't confused even though he didn't know where he was or who I was, a little later we got a call from a nurse on the ward asking if we have everything we need at home for him and to get carers into place as he's coming home in the next day or so. I got a call the next day and thought it was a call to bring him home but it was call to say theres nothing more they can do and they are stopping treatment and come to say goodbye. My dad passed away sadly and the death certificate states heart failure (which we knew), sepsis and acute kidney failure (what he apparently didn't have). If you've got this far thank you for reading, I just feel really let down and think more could have been done, I'm not even saying my dad would have still been here but there's been so much emotional distress etc but I don't know if it's just my greif so was just wondering.. thank you. (Accidentally posted it in bereavement)

OP posts:
LIZS · 03/03/2021 16:39

Sorry you lost him, did you post at the time? I think you need to allow yourself time to grieve before you decide whether and how to pursue it. I think you have up to 3 years.

It sounds as if his care and communication fell well short but being elderly with a heart condition could have meant he was susceptible to other infections. Acute kidney problem may may have been at the very end for example. Demonstrating negligence could be difficult. Have you spoken to PALS?

minniemoocher · 03/03/2021 16:54

In the gentlest way, to be honest even a non dr like myself can see your dad was very ill, he probably knew this himself and he didn't want to be in hospital hence asking to be discharged. Knowing there really wasn't anything they could do they honoured his wishes it seems. They didn't give up on him and did try but sometimes they really don't have anything to change the inevitable. The covid situation did complicate things with the ambulances etc but I think we can all understand the situation.

When considering negligence I think we all need to consider whether treatment 1 day, 1 week or whatever depending on the situation really would have changed the outcome because whilst there's a possibility in some cases, potentially extending life by 2 weeks for instance probably is not a case of negligence whereas missing a cancer that becomes terminal weeks later would be. Suing for negligence is very hard, stressful, potentially expensive if you fail and it's future patients that will be affected as money has been diverted. Asking for a full review of his case is usually a better course of action, so they can learn from any mistakes, they are only very stressed humans.

Elsiebear90 · 03/03/2021 16:54

I’m sorry for your loss, the care doesn’t sound up to standard (sending him home with IV needles in etc m), it sounds like he had end stage heart failure and should have been admitted to a cardiology ward as he is decompensating, is this what happened?

At 77 with end stage heart failure there aren’t many treatment options to be honest, the main treatment is Furosemide infusions to try and shift some of the water, which sounds like he was having, but once it has reached multi organ failure level, which it sounds like it had with your dad, death is inevitable and it is just about making the patient comfortable.

Without knowing all the details I can’t say whether you have a claim for negligence , I do think it sounds like he was reaching the end of his life and the outcome would not have been different at another hospital. However, I would urge you to write to PALS to complain about the quality of the care he received.

HarleyQuinn21 · 03/03/2021 17:02

I understand where you're all coming from and I know myself the outcome probably wouldn't have been much different but it's more the emotional distress for example the day before we were told to come and say goodbye the doctor said they know it's his heart, no kidney or liver failure and no sepsis (which wasn't the case) he's clinically stable and they're gonna send him home etc, he was in the CCU but then was moved to a normal ward afterwards. I don't know like I said it's probably anger from his death and the messing about the hospital put us through these last few months. Thank you for your replies, no point complaining to PALS is there, an apology email won't make anyone feel better sadly.

OP posts:
notapizzaeater · 03/03/2021 19:32

Def complain to Pals if nothing else to stop it happening again. People won't learn if they aren't shown what they've done wrong. Once you've the report then decide what you want to do.

Purplewithred · 03/03/2021 19:42

I am so sorry this has happened to you.

You definitely need to put in a report as the management of his care and the communication with you as a family appears to have been awful. However, as other people have said, I don't think it's obvious you have a claim for medical negligence.

Do please contact PALS at the hospital (they will be on the website) or your local Healthwatch (google). Think of it as making a report - its much more important than a complaint - the hospital need to know what is happening or nothing will improve for anyone else.

HoppingPavlova · 04/03/2021 08:34

The whole point of PALS is that, while you may only get an apology, they will look into the situation and make any changes deemed necessary to try and prevent this from occurring again. You will not be privy to this work done behind the scenes.

Margaritatime · 04/03/2021 10:39

Not sure if this is possible but have you thought about asking PALs for a meeting to talk through his treatment/ medical conditions.

Having a complete picture of what actually happened may help you to move on. I agree with pp your Dad was clearly very ill and treatment would only have delayed the inevitable.

anamazingfind · 13/03/2021 10:48

I agree with talking to PALS. With medical negligence you have to demonstrate that the treatment he received contributed or caused his death. This might be difficult. Only a medical expert can look at the evidence

FuckyouBrennan · 13/03/2021 10:52

No, you do not have a case. Even if you did what do you hope to gain? I’m sorry but money won’t bring your dad back. He was clearly very poorly.
I notice you pointed out in your OP (putting family members at risk) but you weren’t concerned for the paramedics to do the same?

FuckyouBrennan · 13/03/2021 10:52

Sorry for your loss

Youwhobego · 13/03/2021 10:58

I’m really sorry for your loss OP Flowers

As far as I know, if the outcome was almost certain to happen anyway, it’s extremely unlikely you’d have grounds for a case. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t feel upset and let down by what happened, your feelings are valid with or without a legal challenge

l2b2 · 13/03/2021 11:08

💐sorry for your loss OP.
Reading your post, what strikes me is the in-patient communication was poor throughout. I'd have been on to PALs for clarification earlier but I'd urge you to email them ASAP and highlight how communication issues have made a bad situation worse.
On the face of it it doesn't sound like the outcome would have been different.

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