Signing house over the children

[kookahhh]

Hello

I'm looking for advice to see what my mum would need to do to sign her house over to her two children, myself and my sister.

This is at her request. All of my gran's money went to pay for a care home and mum wants to avoid that.

I know it's a tricky subject, but I also know loads of people do this because I work for social services.

Mum is 76 and has had a hip replacement but has no current care needs or significant health problems that would suggest she'll need care at the moment.

I live nearby and plan to make sure she never needs to go into a home by helping out myself if needed, (sister as well but she lives a bit further away) but I know that sometimes even with the best will in the world that might not work out in some cases.

Thanks all.

Agree with OP that it’s not deprivation of assets unless the person already has care needs. That’s the case in my LA anyway.

I dont want my hard earned money or assets to be spent on a carehome for someone able to fund themselves just so their adult dc can enjoy a happy inheritance

I do not want my hard earned and slooooowly earned assets to be burned through at lightning speed by care fees. I do not believe the standard of care differs enough to justify it. I want my assets to go to my DC, just as the OP's DM does.

All of us want this, really. The problem is that all we would be doing is passing down a huge welfare bill for our children's generation to pay agonisingly slooooowly in higher taxes throughout their working lives.

Yeah, but the rest of us don't want to pay for your DC's inheritance.

I will have worked about 45 years and hopefully paid sufficient tax to cover the cost of my care. I wouldn't break the law, but I would not hand my DC's inheritance over unnecessarily either.

Many of my colleagues have done this already if they have older parents. I don't want to discuss it with them as I'm private in real life.

My former boss has done this. He now manages the client contribution department!

I really don't understand who people think should fund their care when needed?

It's bizarre.

Let's face it none of us want to pay for other peoples' care do they?

Many of my colleagues have done this already if they have older parents.

The reality is OP most people do it if they can. They don't want other people to do it, of course.

I'm sure if OP and other people planning on doing this were asked about wealth gaps widening or narrowing over generations they would mostly advocate narrowing of the gap; however see no problem with doing everything possibly to avoid paying for their own family needs.

Sorry, it's selfish. Nobody has a right to an inheritance.

If at the time you make transfer of the asset, you have no known care needs, then there is no case for deprivation of assets. If you do, then there is. A 'single event' such as a stroke is very easy to prove, if however you have something memory-related e.g. Alzheimers, dementia, there may be grey areas as it is not clear when the starting point for this 'knowledge of care needs' has started.

7 years only applies in terms of IHT, she would have to survive for 7 years from the date of the transfer to have no IHT payable. The liability reduces as time goes by.

This is the legal position - if you work for social services you will be well aware as to the practicalities of this and what people do in 'real life'. Given that self funders will be in some cases paying double what the council funded residents will be 'paying', to live in the exactly the same care homes with the exactly the same care facilities, I understand why many people do this.

You can always purchase care annuities with the money from the sale of the house - that way you will be able to leave some money to the younger generations, whilst having the security of knowing what your care fees will be. The actuaries will calculate this annuity figure based on your (relative's) particular health position and the likelihood of their surviving one year vs several years, in the home.

@kookahhh

Let's face it none of us want to pay for other peoples' care do they?

No, not if they have a house which they won’t be needing any more which could be sold to pay for it.

All your posts saying everybody you know does it - that just indicates to me it is ripe for clamping down on and we’re likely to see that very soon.

I will have worked about 45 years and hopefully paid sufficient tax to cover the cost of my care. I wouldn't break the law, but I would not hand my DC's inheritance over unnecessarily either.

Given that your tax covers education, health, roads, child benefit, the provision of parks, libraries, the police etc etc etc, I very much doubt that your contribution amounts to 3 years at £1k a week. It could do if you have been a huge contributor of highest rate taxes, but if that was the case you would be unlikely to be worrying about not being able to leave an inheritance.

Yes let's get advice how to use more taxpayers money to avoid paying for the care

@kookahhh

Many of my colleagues have done this already if they have older parents. I don't want to discuss it with them as I'm private in real life.

My former boss has done this. He now manages the client contribution department!

Of course they have. It's not just for care home fees, it will be for IHT purposes as well, and there will probably be complicated 'rental arrangements' with market value rents moving between bank accounts each month for 7 years to prove that this isn't an artificially generated solution, at least until the IHT period expires.

Unfortunately you probably won't get people prepared to discuss this in real life, you can see the range of views on the thread above. You need to speak to an accountant, one with experience of the care home situation, and also one who can negotiate the IHT situation as if you do manage to keep some inheritance, the next thing will be to make sure that you don't use the 40% over the threshold.

@kookahhh

Let's face it none of us want to pay for other peoples' care do they?

I'm happy to pay for the care of those who cannot afford to do so themselves. Your mum can afford to do so but wants to enrich you and your sister at the state's expense instead. Rather a different kettle of fish.

I don’t want to pay for someone else’s parents care. Both mine are dead (I’m 30s) my mum died at home and my dad spent less than a week in a hospice. Why should I fund someone else’s care just so they can get a nice inheritance? How is that just?

I hope the government stops all of this switching over of assets to prevent care bills etc and makes it that if a family member has passed over a sizeable asset without payment to the value of the asset then they will be liable for the relevant costs as if they still owned that asset.

It's IHT, not CGT.

Also, have a look at something called a Gift With a Reservation

I can't believe how greedy this is

I'm more than happy to "pay" to care for those who have no way of funding it themselves. But to deliberately hide assets to avoid having to pay your own care costs is just morally bankrupt.

@kookahhh

Let's face it none of us want to pay for other peoples' care do they?

No definitely not but I don't agree with what your colleagues are doing particularly when they have "inside" knowledge

It is a really rubbish thing to do. I work in a similar area and it is really thought badly of. In our local authority it will be investigated if it's suspected.

It's amazing how many people think they're the special ones- how their inheritance is more important than everyone else's. It depressing that someone who works in a local authority is genuine that selfish and doesn't give a fuck about using an already massively over stretched budget that could massively benefit others if no one did this- just to get a bit of money yourself.

You seem to know it all already so why not just go and see a solicitor.

Thanks to those offering advice.

I know this is a controversial topic.

For those wanting the government to stop stuff like this, do you think Boris and his cronies wouldn't have tied up their far more considerable wealth?

For those wanting the government to stop stuff like this, do you think Boris and his cronies wouldn't have tied up their far more considerable wealth?

And that makes it right?

Take proper legal advice it can be done.
My mum and dad have worked .worked and worked my dad always had 2 jobs. No flash cars holidays or fancy lifestyles they ploughed every penny into there house and pension so will have to pay for care no help from council.
There friends the husband self employed builder used to pay minimum tax mostly cash in hand the wife cash in hand cleaner never paid tax
.
They've done equity realise on house burnt through the money over the years plasma tv ,cruise flash cars and caravans there skint . All there care fees are paid .
hardly fair

Boris and his cronies won’t be expecting their parents to be cared for by taxpayers though, they’re rich enough to fund themselves. In fact the thought of being put in a care home with the great unwashed probably brings them out in hives.

If your mum doesn’t want to fund her own care then you and your sister need to care for her like families did not too long ago.