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Original poster

Leaving house legal rights

24 replies

Holyshirtballs1 · 02/02/2021 14:04

Ok quick overview. 6 years ago mil gave her son..my husband, the family home. She Signed everything into both our names and the only interest in the property was to have her day in the property. She was afraid of losing the property if she ever became ill snd needed to go into a care home and my husband was to always inherit the family home.

She now has moved in to a smaller property a pensioner house and is renting.

What im wondering is, has she now given up her right to the property by moving out?

OP posts:
Nightmanagerfan · 02/02/2021 14:06

What did the legal documents she signed at the time say?

If she signed everything over then she has no right legally. However, this will be seen as deliberate deprivation of assets if she needs care in future.

Original poster
Holyshirtballs1 · 02/02/2021 15:10

She basically signed away any interest in property, the only thing was the right to reside. We have morgaged the property and put on a granny flat for her but she has now chose to leave. We live at the property now.
Im just wondering where we stand legally now. If we wished to sell property in a few years can we do that?

OP posts:
TitusPullo · 02/02/2021 15:17

What do you mean by right to the property? To sell it/alter it etc, then that will depend entirely on what legal work was done. If she still had a legal right to make decisions about it then she didn’t fully transfer it to you in the first place.

FWIW, if she continued to reside at the property and didn’t pay you a market rent, HMRC won’t consider that it left her estate until she moved out. So regardless of when this arrangement happened the clock on the 7 years required to give away assets Inheritance Tax free didn’t start until she moved out.

Also as a previous poster says, if she needs local authority help with care costs, they may well come after the house she gave away. There is precedent for it.

PragmaticWench · 02/02/2021 16:03

Definitely read up about deprivation of assets, there's no 7 year clause with that as there is with Inheritance Tax, so if she needs care the Council will come after your DH for the money from that property.

Original poster
Holyshirtballs1 · 02/02/2021 16:08

She had the right to continue living at the property until she would pass away.
Which meant we couldnt sell the property if we wished.
The property has been in our name for 6 years, it has been mortgaged and we have maintained, upgraded it all and paid for everything. She has never paid us anything for it or any bills.
When she moved out I contacted our solicitor he wrote out to her advising her she no longer has a legal right to reside at property and she needed to see her solicitor for advice if she wishes to query this and sorted he sorted a completion certificate for us.

Maybe im being a bit stupid here, but this type of stuff ive never dealt with and I really dont want to phone solicitor to seem thick. But this woman tends to hold the property over our head and i would hate to think now she has moved that she can still dictate what we do with it when she doesnt live here.

OP posts:
titchy · 02/02/2021 16:13

It depends what you mean by 'signed' and what you mean by she has the right to stay.

What is on the deeds? What did you sign? Do you have a copy? Is anything held in trust?

Original poster
Holyshirtballs1 · 02/02/2021 16:23

The deeds are in my and my husband name. Nothing in trust.
Our solicitor said she had no financial interest in property. She was just allowed "her day" meaning allowed to live here the remainder of her life. Thats its. And im just wondering has she lost that right now she has moved out.

OP posts:
titchy · 02/02/2021 16:27

She was just allowed "her day" meaning allowed to live here the remainder of her life.

But how? What legal mechanism existed that allowed her to live out her life in the house?

Hoppinggreen · 02/02/2021 16:31

What document is there that says she has the right to live there?

Collaborate · 02/02/2021 16:39

I can see this going round in circles - OP giving unclear information despite being asked for clarity a few times.

I'm guessing that on paper the mother-in-law had no right to continue to reside at the property, but did so on the basis of an understanding.

If you got a mortgage on the property I presume MiL was asked to sign something that as against the lender she would not have an interest in the property, or perhaps something to confirm she had no interest whatsoever.

If you want your question answering you'll have to speak to a solicitor about this and show them the deeds and paperwork from around the time of the mortgage.

christmasathomeagain · 02/02/2021 16:54

Would it not be similar to what is in a will when you want to leave house to children but partner allowed to live there for rest if life?

There must have been some legal agreement written up to say she can live there. How legal that is I don't know but by the sounds of it a solicitor has handled it.

Berthatydfil · 02/02/2021 17:13

When was it signed over.?
Was she receiving care services at the time?
There is an annex - did you built it for her?
did she live there after signing over the house ?
Does she need care now?

If she wasn’t receiving or shortly anticipating /needing care at the time then there is no deprivation of assets particularity if you provided accommodation for her in the period after.
The key is that if the intention was not to reduce care fees - say in this case it you can argue the intention was to provide a more suitable home (the annex) together with family support.
There is no set time limit but the longer the time since it happened the harder it will be to prove deprivation.
If you take this to the extreme it would be that no one over a certain age could ever spend money, downsize and give away money to help children on the housing ladder in case that some unknown time in the future they need care.

TitusPullo · 02/02/2021 17:23

@Berthatydfil I appreciate what you are saying but the OP literally states the reason was to avoid potential care fees. Also the house appears to be the vast majority of the assets the OP’s MIL owned if she is now renting. It’s not the the same as downsizing or giving away part of your assets. The OP’s MIL “gave away” the house then continued to live there. Seems pretty transparent to me. I think deprivation of assets should be something to consider seriously in this scenario.

Berthatydfil · 02/02/2021 17:56

Titus
Yes but was she actually receiving care or needing care at the time?
Was it a real probability at the time or a future unforeseen event?
If she was fit and healthy for her age , had no known conditions or illnesses then I think it would be difficult to prove the intentional deprivation. She is living in pensioner accommodation some 6 years later not residential care and may not ever need residential care .
I think there is a big reach from wanting to secure inheritance from possible (not probable) eventuality - not all elderly people go into care it’s not a given, and being in the situation where the elderly person has known health issues and is already known to social care and is already receiving some services and then signing away the house.

Original poster
Holyshirtballs1 · 02/02/2021 18:03

Just to be clear... she was receiving care before any of this. We mortgaged the property in order to make it more accessible for her. Disability dock bathroom as such. An annex added on. Tge house is very large and farms of land.
I will go back and question the solicitor for more clarity. Thanks to those that responded.

OP posts:
Original poster
Holyshirtballs1 · 02/02/2021 18:05

My query was just if now wished to sell in future would we be able to as she np longer lives here. Sorry if i wasnt clear enough.

OP posts:
purplecorkheart · 02/02/2021 18:27

I am not UK based but the letter that your Solicitor sent to her sounds wrong to me. (Unless there are specific terms in the contract).

Obviously it all depends on the exact wording on the document that was signed but I would think that unless it specified that her lifetime interest in the property is extinguished if she does not reside in the property for a certain length of time then I think you can not sell it without her consent and I would imagine that if she is incapacitated and unable to give consent you would need possible court clearance.

titchy · 02/02/2021 18:39

@Holyshirtballs1

My query was just if now wished to sell in future would we be able to as she np longer lives here. Sorry if i wasnt clear enough.
Your question was very clear! But you have never answered what paperwork you have that gave you all the idea that she could stay there for the rest of her life so no one can answer.
Original poster
Holyshirtballs1 · 02/02/2021 18:41

@purplecorkheart thanks for this. Ill double check with him where we stand.

OP posts:
Original poster
Holyshirtballs1 · 02/02/2021 19:24

Im not sure of paperwork!! Ill check with solicitor.

OP posts:
Phoenix21 · 02/02/2021 19:42

How is she paying for her current rent?

thecognoscenti · 02/02/2021 19:48

If she was receiving care at the time she transferred the legal title to the property, it is clear deliberate deprivation and the transfer will have been ineffective for avoiding care fees. She will be treated as though she still owns the house in any means testing calculation.

thecognoscenti · 02/02/2021 19:49

As for your particular question: it will depend on the terms of the transfer agreement she signed.

purplecorkheart · 02/02/2021 20:13

Op to be 100% honest if I was in your shoes I would consider contacting a different Solicitor just to be on the safe side. That letter he sent seems odd to me

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