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Legal matters

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Original poster

Covid vaccination and employment

33 replies

lightand · 01/02/2021 10:50

I am seeing some posters who are saying that if a person refuses the covid vaccination, they may not be employed at such and such company, may not enter someone's house in the case of say a contractor or plumber, may not enter a building etc.

I am just asking generally, not for anything or anyone specific.

Where does the law stand currently please?
People mention disability act, employment rights, equality act, religion, health discrimination etc etc.
To my mind, it all comes down to legality in the end. And I presume that that is untested as regards the covid vaccination. Or is it? Are there precedents in UK law?

OP posts:

FelineFlick · 01/02/2021 10:57

I don't have any legal knowledge on this but my friends cousin is a nurse and when I asked her about whether she will take the vaccine she said "we will do what we are told to do" so I don't know if health workers etc are being given a choice.

Will be interesting to know.

Theunamedcat · 01/02/2021 11:00

As far as I'm aware it is not law to have any vaccine in this country leaving the country is different but to generally live and work here no

mrdobalinamrbobdobalina · 01/02/2021 11:03

@FelineFlick

Will be interesting to know.

Health worker are NOT being made to take the vaccine. No one is. As NHS workers we are being very strongly encouraged to take it, obviously. But it remains personal choice. Most are us are extremely grateful to have been given it.

Flickoffboris · 01/02/2021 11:05

I know a nursing home owner who plans to sack any staff who won't have the vaccine, and not recruit any new staff who can't provide proof of immunisation.

He's consulted his solicitors and believes he's acting within the law.

Be interesting to see how this pans out.

CommanderBurnham · 01/02/2021 11:06

I work I. Healthcare and no one has been forced, however my job is conditional on my hep B vaccine and maybe Covid might ge that way too. However, the flu vaccine isn't compulsory for us so who knows.

ForTheLoveOfSleep · 01/02/2021 11:15

Our local NHS trust has stated that if the vaccine is refused by staff they will not be entitled to sick pay for absences caused by having Covid. So not compulsory but "highly encouraged" .

Original poster

lightand · 01/02/2021 20:06

I wouldnt have thought that would be legal @ForTheLoveOfSleep, but what do I know?

No one legal [unless @Theunamedcat is] has replied, so I am guessing that the people who have replied have got things correct. Thank you.

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PresentingPercy · 02/02/2021 00:52

You can change the contract of employment if both parties agree. So a contract could be changed to include a clause that says a withers must be vaccinated. (Unless good reason not to). If the worker doesn’t agree to the change in contract the employer cannot force the situation but could include the clause in future contracts. Employment contracts are amended all the time and this amendment could seem reasonable.

All health and care workers should accept they should never harm their patients. By refusing to get vaccinated one would imagine they are doing that. They are causing problems if they get ill. They should be responsible employees and they have a duty of care towards their patients or residents.

PresentingPercy · 02/02/2021 00:52

withers??? Workers....

Bythemillpond · 02/02/2021 01:02

What about those people who have a problem with vaccines?

Bythemillpond · 02/02/2021 01:02

Problem being they have bad reactions to them

Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum · 02/02/2021 01:13

I read that the association of care homes (well it was called something like that) that is a group representing care home in England have sort legal advice on this.

They want to know if they can legally sack any carer that refuses the vaccination. On the grounds they are endangering their residents

Sunflowergirl1 · 02/02/2021 06:00

Pimlico Plumbers have made it a requirement for all new staff they employ to be vaccinated. Not sure how that works currently for those that can't get it!

ChateauMargaux · 02/02/2021 06:10

A barrister talks about this question.

Ostryga · 02/02/2021 06:11

Also know a care home that isn’t employing anyone that hasn’t had the vaccine. Unless for medical reasons (anaphylaxis to other drugs so can’t risk it etc).

Tbh if you’re working with vulnerable people and choose to do so, protecting them is the very first part of your job.

Flickoffboris · 02/02/2021 06:59

I guess i take issue with the fact the vaccine protects the recipient, there is no evidence that it stops them transmitting the virus.

Original poster

lightand · 02/02/2021 09:10

Thank you for the replies.

Today there is a thread about the other way around as well. A manager is effectively forcing someone to work with a person, who may or may not have covid.

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Original poster

lightand · 02/02/2021 09:16

@ChateauMargaux
Thank you for that video. It is an excellent 10 min video. He says he has made another video too, along the same sort of line. The one linked is about whether the gov can force vaccination. His 2nd video is about whether an employer can force/encourage vaccination etc.

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PresentingPercy · 02/02/2021 13:06

The one about the employer is more interesting really. I’m not surprised that employers such as nhs will be in a strong position to dismiss and win unfair dismissal cases for non take up of vaccine. It is considered a risk to patients if relevant staff are not vaccinated. This will no doubt be tested at some time.

Other employers can dismiss, especially vocal anti vaxers. They might face a claim for unfair dismissal but some might think it’s worth it. It will depend on the organisation - their work and how they work. They might also consider what the employees feel too.

I think human rights in the uk might not be regarded so highly now we are out of the Eu and their court system. I think that argument could run and run. Ditto the harm from side effects. That would take a lot of proof in my view. As would anyone refusing on doubtful health grounds.

In the end the tribunals and courts will have to decide who to believe but it will take a very long time. In the meantime unemployment is rising. Why take the risk of unemployment?

In the future employers can add vaccination into a condition for employment. The nhs and care homes could do this.

Original poster

lightand · 02/02/2021 13:14

In the future employers can add vaccination into a condition for employment. The nhs and care homes could do this

Did he say all employers? Not sure. I need to have another listen.

Interesting that he said there could be differences between how anti-vaxx and hesitant vacs people could be treated.

He also thinks that employees could have a good case in an employment tribunal, generally. Not what I was expecting him to say.

Other interesting points on there too. I agree. The employment one is more interesting generally.

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Original poster

lightand · 02/02/2021 13:18

Why take the risk of unemployment?

Some people feel very strongly. Particularly when you put race and religious grounds, into the mix.

I read today, that orthodox Jews have been hit by the virus, about 8x national average. Due, it is thought, to their propensity to be together communally a lot of the time.

Video said a person would be unlikely to get more payout than 1 year's worth, if they won at tribunal.

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mrdobalinamrbobdobalina · 02/02/2021 13:45

Can someone link to the other thread please? I can't find it.

Sidewalksue · 02/02/2021 13:55

I’m not sure where I saw it but there has been a lot of care workers are refusing to have it. What if some residents can’t have the vaccine.
I’m absolutely sure some places will not pay for covid sickness if you haven’t had the vaccine.

lunar1 · 02/02/2021 14:06

My aunts care home have said they won't take in any new staff that haven't had it, they also won't admit and residents who won't have it. They will make an exception for a resident who medically can't have it. They are in Wales if it makes a difference.

Original poster

lightand · 02/02/2021 14:10

@mrdobalinamrbobdobalina
You mean the other video??

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