Grandparents taking me to court for visitation

[Mia193]

Hello,

Im just after some advise from those who have been to court/ in a similar position - my daughter is 5 years old, since birth both me and her Father lived with my parents. Recently we have all moved out and the grandparents have became very hostile towards us and possessive over my daughter. They wanted to see her 4X a week, when i did not agree to this they filed an application to the court.They've even gone as far as getting close family members to send us abuse and alienate us form the rest of the family- resulting in cutting off all contact.

She is taking us to court in Feb this year - Please would people be able to share their experiences / outcomes :)

Thanks
Mia x

@ASimpleLampoon

I am not a solicitor but I thought grandparents have no legal rights to grandchildren in the uk.

They can apply to go to court. They can't go straight to demanding anything.

Agree with PP, based on what I’ve read on other threads on here, grandparents have no legal rights. And even if they did, demanding 4 visiting times a week is bloody ridiculous.

There’s loads of these threads on here and the general consensus is there is no such thing as grandparent rights to visitation.

However, if she has grown up with them for the last 5 years, I assume she had a bond so perhaps it is in her best interest to have some contact with them?

How many visits would you be happy with? Could you talk to them to save all the legal hassle?

Did you move out due to any fall out, it just seems like such a leap to go from living together to them threatening to take you to court

I know for a fact in.scotland that grandparents have no rights whatsoever.
The courts won't even entertain it.

Keep copies of all the abusive messages you have received.

No automatic right but under 1989 Children's Act can go to court.

www.gransnet.com/grandparenting/contact-rights

If they have been significantly involved in the child's care is about the only caveat that contact could be ordered.

Given this has been the case for 5 years, I imagine they've received this advice.

If you wish to not gamble a court order, you could try mediation? This should have been trued already though to he able to apply for court.

Have they been her primary career at any point during these five years. Did you go out to work?

Definitely keep every single abusive message you've had from anyone in the family. Just because they are taking you to court doesn't mean anything. Grandparents do not have any level right to dictate visitation. What are the reasons you're not wanting them to see your child?

@Noidea2114

Keep copies of all the abusive messages you have received.

This^ plus keep a detailed log of everything!

How often were you willing for them to see your child?

Are there any potential safeguarding issues, such as drug-taking, or any involvement so far with social services? Of there is, you might get better answers if you give the full circumstances. If not, it doesn't sound as if they can claim this. But if they have been good grandparents, wouldn't it be good for your DC to see them regularly?

Grandparents don't have automatic rights in respect of their grandchildren, but they do have the right to apply for contact and courts may order it. The courts will consider matters such as the grandparents’ relationship with the grandchild, whether contact with the grandparents would be harmful in any way to the child, and
If continuing the contact with the grandparents would impact negatively on the rest of the family.

If your parents have housed you and your daughter for five years, on the face of it they have a good case for at least some contact and it may well be worth trying to negotiate a compromise, If you don't want to do that, have you got solicitors involved, OP? You may need help in presenting your evidence and cross examining the grandparents and any witnesses.

As far as i know grandparents do have a case if the child in question ever lived with them..in your case 5 years is a long time so i would imagine contact will be advised in some manner..

I thought they had to apply for permission to make an application first op. I am a grandparent carer myself and my dd initially tried to use a barrister to stop our application for contact going ahead on this basis. The Judge thought it was nonsense and made the point that she had been happy to leave our grandson with us for 18 months so why on earth should we not see him now.

I must make it clear that I did not want to take any of these actions and social services asked me to apply for a residence order. Obviously first step at first hearing was to try and get some contact, although the Judge would not make an order at this stage. He just told all parties to agree something and then come back into court which we did.

I think it is crazy of your parents to take this stance because family court makes matters so much worse with parties becoming entrenched in their views. However, they have established a relationship with your child and the court may well want to see that maintained so long as there is no risk involved.

Hi @Mia193 sorry it took so long to reply. The first thing you need to do is make an appointment to see a family solicitor to get some basic advice on your exact situation and the process. Many offer a free half hour initially. If you can find a firm that offers a free family advice surgery even better. Although getting advice on the situation initially is advisable it may be very expensive t to have a lawyer in court. Most people self represent. I had help and advice through a free legal clinic ran by a local university. They could not represent me but it was better than being alone.

There is a book called "Family Court Without a Lawyer" which I would read whether you have representation of not to understand the process better.

There's a facebook group called mothers unite which helps women going through family court usually for those with abusive exes but I found the help as support good also process is similar but how do have fewer rights than someone with parental responsibility.

Have you been offered mediation? The gps cannot make an application without this happening first. Mediation is not advisable with an abusive person but it is less traumatic than court. You may wish to choose "shuttle" mediation where you are in separate rooms.

Make sure you tell the mediator about any abusive behaviour. They have the option to refuse mediation on that basis. Also report any abuse to police as it won't be considered otherwise.

Nothing you agree to is legally binding outside of a court order BUT whatever you offer will be a starting point for the court so offer the bare minimum possible and understand you may need to concede to more than your initial offer.

It is very unlikely that they will end up getting 4. x a week. That is ridiculous taking too much of your family time. BUT it is highly likely that some contact will be ordrerd unless there has been serious physical abuse to the child ending in a conviction.

My parents ended up with 5 hours supervised contact per month. Covid has meant they have not been able to meet up for a long time though.

@ASimpleLampoon

Hi *@Mia193* sorry it took so long to reply. The first thing you need to do is make an appointment to see a family solicitor to get some basic advice on your exact situation and the process. Many offer a free half hour initially. If you can find a firm that offers a free family advice surgery even better. Although getting advice on the situation initially is advisable it may be very expensive t to have a lawyer in court. Most people self represent. I had help and advice through a free legal clinic ran by a local university. They could not represent me but it was better than being alone.

There is a book called "Family Court Without a Lawyer" which I would read whether you have representation of not to understand the process better.

There's a facebook group called mothers unite which helps women going through family court usually for those with abusive exes but I found the help as support good also process is similar but how do have fewer rights than someone with parental responsibility.

Have you been offered mediation? The gps cannot make an application without this happening first. Mediation is not advisable with an abusive person but it is less traumatic than court. You may wish to choose "shuttle" mediation where you are in separate rooms.

Make sure you tell the mediator about any abusive behaviour. They have the option to refuse mediation on that basis. Also report any abuse to police as it won't be considered otherwise.

Nothing you agree to is legally binding outside of a court order BUT whatever you offer will be a starting point for the court so offer the bare minimum possible and understand you may need to concede to more than your initial offer.

It is very unlikely that they will end up getting 4. x a week. That is ridiculous taking too much of your family time. BUT it is highly likely that some contact will be ordrerd unless there has been serious physical abuse to the child ending in a conviction.

My parents ended up with 5 hours supervised contact per month. Covid has meant they have not been able to meet up for a long time though.

Thank you for your advise, i have just ordered the book & joined the group on Facebook!!

This is the weird thing, we've never received an invite to mediation - only the application for the court order through the post. ( which was for residence initially so maybe thats why).

My daughter is high risk and we;'re advised not to mix households so im hoping that will help!

May i ask how often your parents saw your little ones before the app was put in?

What happens at the first hearing? do you have to speak much or do they just read your statement ? - did the father get a say? and how long roughly did it last?

Sorry for all the Questions!! I've never been through this before, neither have my friends/family!!

www.familycourtinfo.org.uk/i-need/how-court-works/flowchart-for-child-arrangements-cases/

Hi this chart should explain the process. It's odd you've not been asked to a MIAM (mediation). I would most definitely take what you have received to a so licitor

To clear up a couple of points...

No-one has any right to contact with a child. Some people (parents, people the child has lived with for at least 3 years, etc.) are entitled to apply for a Child Arrangements Order. Anyone else must first apply for the leave of the court to apply for a CAO. Getting leave to apply for a CAO does not guarantee they will succeed in getting a CAO.

Regarding mediation, the requirement is that the grandparents must attend an MIAM unless they can show that they qualify for one of the exemptions. This is NOT a mediation meeting so the parents will not be invited to attend. If the grandparents say they don't want mediation that is the end of the matter - there will be no attempt at mediation and the parents will not be invited to an MIAM or any other mediation meeting.

Been through this process myself unfortunately, from what I remember you have to have a miam or just invite the other party to mediation before the court will look at it. If the other sides had legal advice surely they’ve been told that.
Unfortunately if they get leave of court which I think would probably be likely under the circumstances I think they could possibly get some access.
Unless there are any safeguarding issues ?
Hope it all works out.

OP are you in Scotland or Wales or England ?

I cannot even believe a court would entertain this? We are in the middle of a pandemic, households shouldn't be mixing, yet they are willing to pursue a case where grandparents are unhappy that they aren't getting 4x weekly contact?

Either the courts have precious little else to do or you are withholding more details.