Sorting out DF’s will

[BestIsWest]

My lovely DF passed away recently and I volunteered to take on the job of sorting his estate.
He left a will leaving everything to DM and naming her as the executor.
They owned a house jointly and had several joint accounts. He had some savings in ISAs, a pension and some shares. The whole is well below the IHT threshold.
I didn’t need probate to get any of the ISAs or shares transferred to DMs name as they were all below the thresholds of the various banks.
The house is in joint names and is not registered with the land Registry as they paid off their mortgage years ago.
Is there anything else I need to do? I feel I’ve missed something obvious.

I know I need to complete an IHT205 form then once that is done a PA1P from for probate.

The house needs to be transferred into your mother's sole name and it does need to be registered with the Land Registry.

If the asset holders (banks, pension company etc) are all happy to pay out without probate, you won't need probate at all.

They have all paid out now.

The Land Registry website says:

*Report the death of a joint owner of unregistered land or property
If there's a surviving owner, you do not need to involve HM Land Registry.

You can choose to register the property but you may wish to get legal advice first.*

So I didn’t think I needed to register it at the moment. Can I leave it until after my DMs days? - I’d engage a solicitor to do this next time. Not that it’s been difficult but just additional stress.

You need to do probate, whether they pay out without it or not. But both probate and IHT can be done online - it is super simple to do. You'll need to get a valuation of the house for this purpose as it is part of your dads estate even though no money changes hands

Thanks CMOT, that is useful to know. I need to crack on with it now.

@CMOTDibbler

You need to do probate, whether they pay out without it or not. But both probate and IHT can be done online - it is super simple to do. You'll need to get a valuation of the house for this purpose as it is part of your dads estate even though no money changes hands

That is simply not true. Probate is not always needed. If the house was owned as joint tenants and the financial institutions are happy to release any assets, you do not need probate. You do, however, need to inform HMRC of the death.

You may want to take a look at www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and-wills/dealing-with-the-financial-affairs-of-someone-who-has-died/

As @prh47bridge says you don't need to get probate unless the house was owned as Tenants in Common. Read the Conveyance to your parents if it contains a declaration something to the effect of 'to hold the same as joint tenants and not as tenants in common' then you won't need Probate as the property will automatically belong to the surviving joint tenant. If the property says in was purchased as Tenants in Common then you will need probate as the share of the property has to be left in accordance with the provisions of his Will. If the Conveyance is silent as to how it is held in English Law the presumption is joint tenants.

Gosh, it's a rare property that's unregistered these days. Haven't come across one for decades.

Hope you get it all sorted

I really would seek advice as to whether you need probate, you can phone the very helpful private helpline and ask questions. Citizen advice etc

I found that when my second parent died it was very useful that all the private information had been kept and I could use this to fill in forms for second parent. But I can’t advise you

Probate not private

check for any pensions. Make sure you advise various authorities of his passing - Tell us once was useful for us.

Out of interest I am just doing all this for mother in law and one of the investments has a low threshold for probate of 25k and her investment is 26 odd. Has anyone had any job persuading a bank to grant funds without probate in such a situation - its the only one out of several with others much larger

Are you sure the property isn't registered? I don't think having paid off the mortgage equates to the property being unregistered. Worth checking and updating if necessary so when the time comes to deal with your mother's estate, you won't have stored up any issues.

Sorry for your loss.

If the property hasn’t been sold since the 1920s then it’s possible to not be registered, but it’s uncommon unless the property has stayed in one family

Definitely not on the Land Registry records. According to the website this isn’t necessarily unusual - Your property might not be registered if you owned it before 1990 and have not mortgaged it since.

I’ve done the Tell Us Once so all the authorities have been notified. Workplace pensions too.

You still need to report the estate's value to HMRC. You can do that online at www.gov.uk/valuing-estate-of-someone-who-died/tell-hmrc-estate-value. But provided the property was owned as joint tenants, it doesn't sound like you need probate.

I am a Conveyancer and it is not uncommon for a property to be unregistered. I’d say 10% of my caseload is unregistered.

Speaking very bluntly (apologies) It would be wise to register it whilst mum is still alive if the property is anything other than a very straightforward house with garden. A conveyancer would do this for you for around £200 (plus land registry application fee) if you hold all the deeds.

It isn’t necessary to do this as part of probate though. Lots of my cases have one deceased owner.

The comment regarding registering since the 1920s is not true. Any transfers up to 1990 may not be registered with the land registry, mortgaged or not.

One thing I would check is that if your parents did purchase the property with a mortgage, that the original mortgage deed is ‘sealed’ as repaid as this would save any delays in the future.

Happy for you to ask any questions you may have.

It is also possible to register the property yourself. You just need form FR1 and form DL. If you do it yourself they may also require form DJP.

Thank you Dolly, it is just a house with a garden. The deeds are held by a local firm of solicitors so it’s probably best if I give them a call. For £200 or so it will probably be worth it for the peace of mind.

I am sorry for your loss.

I was told by my dad's solicitor that you need to inform any insurance companies with whom your parents had policies (home / contents / car) as I believe the death of a policy holder can invalidate that policy.

Yes that's a very good point from @BathTangle . It sounds like you've got things covered for the will, but there's still potentially stupid amounts of other paperwork. Feel free to ask if you have any more questions, even if not legal matters!

Yes, I have to say that DF had house/contents/car all insured with Lloyd’s Bank where they had a joint current account and they were brilliant - one phonecall to notify them of his death, uploaded a death certificate to them and they did the lot - sorted the account and transferred the insurances. We sold the car as DM doesn’t drive.