Neighbour claims they have access through our wall and to drive over our land.

[custard01]

We have been approached by people buying a property near ours. They claim they have access to theirs through our boundary wall which has always been there and over our land. It has never ever been accessed this way previously.

I have checked our title plan and there is no access routes on there, just a solid boundary line all away around. But their title deeds show a dotted line through ours and straight through our garden wall.

Why would this not show on our title plan? They seem adament that they are going to be knocking our wall and edge down and driving over our land, so what do I need to do and how can I find out exactly what is what please?

thrings.com/news/over-use-of-an-agricultural-access
I can't do a direct link but this item includes a link to a Farmers Weekly article about access.
It mentions getting an injunction against using an Access, and mentions that if there is alternative easy access available (ie the two streets down option for your neighbours) you are more likely to get this injunction successfully granted.
Also if the wall.is 200.years old and the "access" is 25 years old, it has obviously never been used!

One hint, if you decide to enter into any direct written correspondence with them, do NOT refer to Access, only alleged access. Do not acknowledge or infer that it is real or legal.

Sounds like you have a strong case.

Are they definitely buying it or just sounding you out to see if you'll cave if they do?

Do the properties concerned have (or had in the past) an agricultural tie?

Oh gosh, what a horrible shock. I hope your solicitor can help you. Don't delay getting legal advice, a few hundred quid could save a lot of worry.

I posted on your other thread. It’s very strange that the deeds are showing different things now. Do the new neighbours want to use it for agricultural use?

well that's going to get laughed out of court if it ever comes to court.

they clearly have no need for agricultural access and the route has clearly never been used for agricultural access, so even if they can prove that alleged agreement from 25 years ago it has no bearing on their desire to have full domestic and vehicular access.

if there's easy access by another route that begs the question of why this is important to them. I suspect they are planning to buy a property and then build 2 or 3 houses at the bottom of their garden to sell off, and those properties will need independent access so they are wanting to assert that this will be over your land.

So, they are claiming that 25 years ago the owners of your property granted an easement that could not have been granted because a 200 year old wall stood in the way?

I think you should firstly see what you can do to get the wall listed (check in case it is already listed). Is it possible the intention was to grant a right of way in a different location? I think you need to ask to inspect the 25 year old deed - a copy should be available - does the title for your neighbour's property refer to a copy of the deed being held by HMLR?

if there's easy access by another route that begs the question of why this is important to them. I suspect they are planning to buy a property and then build 2 or 3 houses at the bottom of their garden to sell off, and those properties will need independent access so they are wanting to assert that this will be over your land
I think this is a distinct possibility. Check your local Planning applications tho it's unlikely they've filed anything yet.

Some good advice here, I can't offer anything else except to say good luck OP. Your case sounds strong (I am not a lawyer!)

Something similar, although not as bad, has come to light where we live. We live on a newish road of nine houses, the houses are 20 years old and we bought 10 years ago. Our road used to be a house with a very large garden, where our road joins the main road is where the driveway used to join the main road. The house next door to our estate have applied for planning permission to build in their back garden, the drive of the new house will be accessed from our road. It turns out that they were granted permission to do that by the owners of the previous house that our estate is built on. None of us knew. However the difference is that it won't inconvenience us much (apart from the building works which will be a pain) as it doesn't cut through any private parts of any houses.

I think in your position I would investigate having the agricultural access removed, given that it has never been used and that they have an alternative access. I would do it whether or not these people end up buying because the fact that it's there at all and you are now aware of it probably means that you would need to declare it if you sell and that would definitely put some buyers off.

We have some old rights of way over our property. Since they were in existence they have built a small estate blocking one and the houses have flipped ie what was the front is now the back. Technically there is a right of way down the right hand side of our garden and there should be a gateway in the fence on that side as well. It has been closed off for all the time we have lived here - all the time our neighbours have lived here (30 plus) and also we have long term neighbours at No 1 and No 7 (we are 5). We have researched getting them lifted, and yes it is right that you have to have statements from all neighbours going back x no of years (particularly those effected) but it is still lawyer territory

Actually, there might be an easier way, see if you can get an estimate of how much it would cost you to take the case to court to get the access removed and also how much it would cost the neighbours (who currently own the property, not the prospective buyers) to defend against your action. Then offer them a fee less than your costs would be for them to just agree to give up the access. Point out that they probably don't want to be in the middle of legal action (which they will have to declare) while they trying to sell.

How strange that it was added after the wall was built. Good luck getting to the bottom of it.

What a horrible thing to just come up to new neighbours and say!

I did wonder if maybe they were testing the water, as the vendor might have said they had access but the prospective owner wanted to know if there was likely to be legal objection to it.

The fact that the wall is around 200years old is interesting! Is the property listed op?

take photos, with date, of the wall.

My question would be, why they want that access?

I have nothing to add but it seems odd to have agreed access through a 2000 year old wall and it is clear that it was never acted upon. I hope you get it resolved.

Is there any sign of the actual agreement? Without that I don't think that a paragraph on the deeds is proof enough especially since your deeds don't show any right of way.

It might say on their copy that an agreement was made, however there needs to be physical proof of the actual agreement itself, surely. Signed by both parties.

If I were you, I'd get onto your local council sharpish and ask them to put a grade 2 listing on your historic wall.

Surely a right of way agreement can't be made unilaterally?
If House A wants ROW over land of house B, the owners of B would have to agree so it would be in their deeds. I can't see how it appearing on the deeds of A gives them any rights

How long were the current owners there for? It’s possible that they were sold it as having ‘development potential’ and had the deeds changed then. So they’ve just passed this message on to any prospective purchasers. Without any proof I’d expect it’s a non starter, but even if they had proof, their wording states agricultural use (not domestic) and they haven’t used it at all so I would expect you can have it over turned.

Caveat - no legal training whatsoever so this is only my opinion

You definitely have a good case if there is alternative access and the agreement was never taken advantage of.