Advice on joint tenancy and person leaving

[Piggywaspushed]

Hi all. Am hoping someone can advise!

DS has a room in a shared student house form September. He entered into this tenancy with three others but now the girl has pulled out.

We acted as guarantor for DS and checked at the time that we were guarantor for him and him only.

But now it appears that the girls' rent can be added to their rents and so it is upped from £400 pcm to over £500 unless someone else takes her room up.

She has been asked to sign a form giving up her tenancy so the agents can find someone else to replace her. She is not being asked to find anyone and the three lads can't magic someone up.

This is what is making me jittery! What if they don't? How likely is this? Are we better off not agreeing to allow her to break her contract? She has a guarantor, after all... surely they should chase them for her outstanding monies?

Although I did attend uni, we definitely had no such thing as this back in my day so I feel a bit naïve and annoyed that I checked this guarantor thing but not the joint tenancy implications.

Joint tenancies are really complicated.

All joint tenants are joint and severally liable for the rent.

Legally - if still in the fixed term then the tenancy agreement can only be ended by mutual consent which means all 4 tenants have to agree with the LL to end it but the LL does not have to agree and they would all still be liable for the total rent until FT ends even if they move out

If the agents are allowing 1 tenant to end the tenancy then if all tenants agree it will end for them all. And they will not be liable for any rent.
Agents cant just end the TA for 1 tenant like this so maybe informing them that this is unlawful might prompt them to do it correctly.

That's really interesting ,thanks.

I did not know this last paragraph, so will raise this with them.

So, what to do if one person wants to drop out? This must be happening a bit more this year, I would have thought.

I am hoping they will just keep chasing her for her rent. They also say keys can't be released unless everyone has paid.

The agents say they all rented the house for £1600 pcm so that amount can be divided between the 3 of them?

The contract DS has says 'joint and individually liable'?

Yes - Its a bit of a conundrum with no clear answer. The agents do seem to be wanting it both ways.

They either agree to end the tenancy for all joint tenants (all tenants will have to agree- mutual consent)

Or the tenancy continues on the same terms (4 x joint tenants inc one who has left)

If the tenant who has left- doesn't pay then agents can chase her for her share of the rent or can chase the others for it.

If the 3 remaining tenants refuse to pay the shortfall (the agents can take steps to evict - serve notice etc) but cant issue s21 during FT term until 2 months before FT ends and cant apply to court until FT ends.
Or they can serve s8 anytime for rent arrears and it would be for a court decide a) if there are grounds to grant possession b) whether the tenants do owe the rent and if it is found they dont owe the rent because the TA was not ended correctly then there would be no grounds for possession
Judges often favour tenants when the agent/LL has acted unlawfully which they have by only ending TA for 1 tenant
.
Best bet is to discuss with agent that you have taken legal advice and they are acting unlawfully by only ending TA for 1 tenant or to get the other tenants to advertise for another tenant- it's messy I'm afraid

Right, I am armed with info.

The girl herself is clearly a bloody liability and is ignoring everyone. I think we need to play hardball with her.

The agent has said they will advertise for another tenant, but only when this form has been signed.

Your son is at university, he should be handling this himself.

Yes, offer advice and help, but don’t take over. Don’t “play hardball” with her. Leave it to him to deal with; it’s a good life lesson and having mummy and daddy fix everything will teach him nothing.

I am his guarantor and as such may be held legally responsible.

This is legal matters, so I was looking for advice not being informed in this area. jude has kindly helped.

Not sure what form that would be

Its not her though that you need to play hardball with -its the agents.

Make a complaint to the agent in first instance if no joy then look at who their redress scheme is is (should be on their website) and complain to them.
The 3 remaining tenants are within their rights to get another tenant themselves in this scenario as agent cant have it both ways.

This is a legal matter- not an emotional one -you will be better placed being objective.

This is a legal matter- not an emotional one -you will be better placed being objective.

wasn't implying you were by the way- just meant you are unlikely to get anywhere with the tenant that has left, whereas you more than likely have some redress with the agents

Yes, I meant hardball as in not letting her just walk away and pay nothing. I don't think we want DS to sign a form letting her get out of the tenancy is what I mean.

I think the agent think it is all perfectly clear and above board and they are university approved.

DS has one friend due to go into halls who would save a lot of money by renting privately so I am hopeful he may decide to take the room.

It is one of those things where you think you have meticulously researched something (ie being a guarantor) and then discover you didn't understand at all... I knew I was his guarantor alone, but didn't know his rent could increase because of the action of another housemate dropping out.

Am just fact finding really , so thanks!

Can you clarify, this is a current tenancy and they have moved in to the property?

No, not moved in yet. Tenancy starts in 2 months.

the 3 remainers have paid their security deposits .

There is no tenancy. I am afraid @Judethe0bscure is wrong. A tenancy does not commence until the tenant(s) has actually moved in. There is simply contractual agreements to enter into a future tenancy.

In the absence of a tenancy, Miss Student is in breach of the contractual agreement. This may seem a minor point but it's important as the remedy is different and I would advise not making a complaint. The agent is acting entirely correctly.

The student needs to confirm she does not intend to take up the tenancy. The agent can then find another tenant. It needs to be in writing as otherwise she could just change her mind again and the agent would then be in the position of, if he found a replacement, having five prospective tenants all with valid contracts.

Your remedy is simple pragmatism. A written communication from the student is what is needed. If your son knows her then he could contact her by phone and ask her to put in writing she doesn't want the prospective tenancy then you can all move on. Patience might help as she may be unsure how she wishes to proceed. I know that sounds a bit patronising and not particularly helpful to your sons position but many students are struggling with what to do in September.

Nearly all student tenancy agreements are joint and several liability. The only time they are not are when they are room only HMOs. LLs don't like these for students as it's better business for them to have joint and several liability. More people to get money out of if there's a breach.

By the way, it would be best to let the student go who no longer wants the property. The alternative as you know is the students and guarantors are responsible for all the rent jointly and individually. By not letting her get out of the contract and your son or agent finding another renter, the arrears will build up pretty quickly and obviously your son, his flatmates and guarantors will have to pay the difference. The ll or agent is perfectly entitled to just pursue the person he believes is most likely to pay up for all arrears.

Interestingly many agents fail to properly do the paperwork for guarantors. For example the document must have the tenancy agreement attached and be executed as a deed, so signature witnessed, and you should have been advised to take legal advice. Without all these having been satisfied it's unlikely any litigation to cover any arrears would be successful, providing the DJs attention is drawn to the above points.

Ah, thanks. This sounds more like what is happening.

Unfortunately 'Miss Student' is now not replying to anyone, the agents included. I think DS has learnt a lesson here. It's a long story but originally the three lads were looking together and then she came on board pretty much at the last minute. This actually widened their pool of affordable houses to choose form. But, in hindsight, they knew she was unreliable. But in the scramble for houses they decided to included her to help them get a house.

The agents said yesterday they would pursue her guarantor as a first step . The bit that rankles me is not knowing that his rent could be altered : even though it is a shared house , I assumed his rent contribution was fixed. All I was worried about was damages and deposits etc!

It does sound like most of your final paragraph was done. The signature was witnessed etc but I don't think they sent us a copy of the contract with it.

I am just hoping the stress sorts itself out. I am also concerned about who they might get to replace this girl, if anyone. The only interest I got from a uni Facebook post was a 32 year old overseas MA student.

The house itself was at the cheaper end of the property market and so this is another reason why it is upsetting to think they might end up paying more rent! DS's two friends do not come from affluent backgrounds at all and so I think their guarantors are very upset about this

Jude is wrong and Line is right - the lettings agent are not allowing one tenant to end the tenancy, they are allowing a change in the tenancy agreement so that one of the tenants can be swapped out for another. It's quite common in shared housing with joint tenants. Everyone has to agree to it.

Presumably your son and his friends would prefer to find a replacement housemate themselves, if they can find one of their friends who wants to move in, rather than insist on the girl or the lettings agent finding someone, who might not be someone they choose to live with?

Try not to panic as they do still have time to find someone.

Meanwhile here are some helpful links, please do read up on this before doing or signing anything else.

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/guarantors_for_private_renters

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/tenancy_agreements_in_shared_homes

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/private_rented_housing_for_students

I would just like to sincerely apologise. I completely missed the bit about them not having moved in yet! (how daft do I feel?)

So yes it is a contractual issue rather than a tenancy issue. Listen to Line and Emma! Once again apologies for confusion.

At least OP has some info for later if once they have moved in a tenant decides they just want to leave!

Tbh the same principles would apply even if they had already moved in. If one of the joint tenants wanted to move out, they'd have to get the agreement of the agent/landlord and all the tenants to change the tenancy agreement and swap out one tenant for a new one.

Well, technically if they all agree , yes, but if they don't then that's where the issues start ... but anyway that's not happened yet.

Student joint tenancies can be a nightmare! Poor OP.

Thank you all for help and constructive advice.

I had seen that Shelter stuff yesterday but didn't read it, so will have a proper look now.

All apart of life's rich tapestry...

The lads know of no one (well my DS does but he can't force this other boy to live with him as he is going into first year after dropping out of another uni last year and wants to go into halls).

I might have unearthed another prospect via Facebook who is at least their age.

Genuinely appreciate all the work you have put into your thoughtful replies! Parenting never stops....