Access problem

[Becca19962014]

Basically there's a ramp and it's too steep to get up independently if a person has physical mobility needs. I have complained and been told the ramp has been measured and meets all criteria and if you can't manage then must go to another county (round trip of six hours). It's an NHS department. Then there's a lot about access work recently completed in the building, as they got a grant of £250,000 to improve access but haven't

BUT the measurements don't take into account the already very steep hill which this ramp has been built on top of. If measured from the level floor outside its very steep. The fire exits have eight deep steps for context. The ramp is actually developing cracks and coming away from the hill and building, maybe because it's so steep?

Does anyone know if the rules regarding depth of ramp are the same when built on a steep hill (making the ramp even steeper than the hill!)?

I need to complain again to someone else and would like some kind of evidence to back up my complaint - getting to the other department would cost hundreds of pounds per trip (due to no free NHS transport here anymore, even at a 20% it's really expensive).

The rules are the same regardless of whether the ramp is on a hill or on a level surface. However, whilst the rules are not specific, I think it is reasonable to argue that they are about the gradient relative to a level surface, not the gradient relative to the hill on which the ramp happens to be built. After all, if the maximum gradient a wheelchair user can be expected to negotiate is 1:12 (the figure used for a ramp of up to 2m), that is clearly an absolute figure, not relative to the surrounding land.

Just make sure I've understood properly, legally this ramp, despite being impossible to get up with mobility issues is legal because the gradient on top of the steep hill is within limits (1:12). That's what they've told me too in their reply.

The reason I'm asking is I've had put in my notes that I'm refusing to attend treatment. However, I cannot get into the building and cannot get to the other one because my physical condition means I can no longer get into a car.

I've had no sleep, so apologies if I've misunderstood.

Thankyou for the help!

Assuming it is no more than 2m long the limit is 1:12. My understanding is that this means 1:12 relative to the horizontal, not 1:12 relative to the hill. If the ramp is longer than 2m the gradient should be less. For a 10m ramp the maximum gradient is 1:20.

You say there is a level floor outside. Is the ramp less than 1:12 when measured from this floor? If not, I believe it is in breach of the regulations.

If the ramp is compliant, you may have more joy is with the site in general. The approach to the building from the boundary of the site or disabled car parking should be level. If this is not possible the approach can have a gentle gradient over a long distance or may include some short, steeper gradients with level landings at intervals. If any part of the approach is steeper than 1:20 it should be designed as ramped access.

The ramp is in two parts with a 90 degree angle to go up the hill. The first is on level ground and definitely meets the requirement. The second is up a hill and about 2m (I think, perhaps a bit longer) and is many times steeper than the lower one. I'd say looking at it from level it's about 45 degrees. The level ground is the basement for the building. (Only accessed from inside).

There's a blue badge sign on the wall but no designated space. This is level to the first bit of the ramp but staff park there.

Reception is now behind two fire doors (lead lined and very heavy, always closed) and impossible to open if you have physical needs. They got rid of carpets and replaced with (cheap non ridged) Lino which is very dangerous when wet. They installed a wet room but that's inaccessible because it's too narrow for a wheelchair. The accessible rooms (for those able to get up the ramp and into reception - I'd say that would mean they had carer and electric power wheelchair) have now been converted into offices for external business, the other rooms are in a very narrow corridor or up two flights of steps.

The fire exit I cannot believe anyone would allow to pass a fire safety check. Not only because of access but because it's extremely narrow and you must squeeze right alongside the building to get down it - if the building is on fire the last thing you'd want to do!

If it is actually 45 degrees (or anywhere near that) from level that is way too steep. By my calculation 1:12 is less than 5 degrees above horizontal.

I don't know exactly as can't measure (that's by eye) and of course it's on top of the steep hill so steeper than that but it's many times more steeper than the one I could measure on the ground which is at the limit.

There's no way a person could self propel up it in a wheelchair, and I wouldn't have thought they could be pushed either without someone getting an injury.

if it's a hospital is there any volunteers service (WRVS or similar) available to help you up the ramp?

Unfortunately not. I honestly don't think they'd do it anyway as I can see someone getting a hernia trying. I know staff, who were employed to aid access, have been told it's against health and safety to help. Hence referring us all elsewhere which means paying private for transport and any out of appointment needs are not dealt with by this county's team so you must also travel for those reasons too. E.g. I know someone who lives in a house with someone physically capable of getting into the the building who has had home visits and treatment during covid - my friend was expected to pay hundreds of pounds to attend treatment out of county. Even though they're on the same meds it's not allowed because she's not under the team in this county.

Rediculous to say the least!

Just to add I can't get into a car anymore so I'm really stuck.

Take photos get someone to go along with you and measure the gradient at the bottom of the ramp and the top.
Then write to your MP.

If I can find someone I'll do that. Great idea.

This is a 45 degree access ramp. Is this like what they are expecting you to navigate?

Here's the regulations they need to adhere to:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/540330/BR_PDF_AD_M1_2015_with_2016_amendments_V3.pdf

If you've got no one to come with you, then you could still write to your MP explaining everything and request that they, or someone from their office, attend with you to assess it for themselves.

It does depend on your MP, but they are often happy to do that. Our MP went and stood at the road outside out school at 9am and 3pm everyday for herself to see the issues kids were having with crossing safely as the pedestrian crossing had been removed. It's worth asking if they will come and see for themselves.

@MashedPotatoBrainz
Is that real? Is it in the UK?
That's awful. What idiot planned that one.

Is that real? Is it in the UK?

I hope not. I just picked it off google to help visualise what the OP is describing.

Its less than that picture. Maybe it's closer to 35 than 45. Still steep.

The difference between the lower ramp and the main one is huge.

I will ask MP for help as well.

mashed thankyou for the regulations. I'll take a look.

Thankyou all.

@Becca19962014 you could see if the ramp is viewable on google maps and take a screen shot of it to upload rather than taking an actual photo.

But definitely involve your MP, you could also get them to meet you there so that they can see the difficulties you face. This is an awful situation.

Got a screen shot! Brilliant idea. It doesn't quite show it fully, but you can see the big difference between the upper and lower ramp. I can see why they think it's fine by being built on the hill as without a shot with the hill it looks the same but a different angle it can be seen.

I can't get a shot of the fire exit - it's blocked off.