Husband sacked over the phone whilst on furlough - legal case?

[Kelcat9494]

Hello,

We need a bit of advice my husband has been working for a company since September, they didn’t make him aware of any probation period or how long it lasts. It was a permanent contract he signed. There was no prior warning or reason he knows of that would get him sacked now apart from him having a performance meeting on January where he made a couple of mistakes but this was a week after we suffered a miscarriage but by March he was told his
Performance was perfect and to keep up the good work.
My husbands boss tried to call him but it was on an old number my husband changed so he received an email mid June telling him they tried to get in contact with him to ask him to volunteer to take a weeks holiday in June but since they can’t contact him he will be force to take them, my husband emailed back and asked if the boss could call him on the correct number as he needs to discuss the holiday situation, the boss called him back the next day whilst my husband was in the bathroom, my husband called back a minute later and his assistant hesitated for a moment saying he was suddenly busy, my husband then received another email saying the boss wasn’t chasing him around and he WILL take the holidays so my husband emailed back apologising and said he called back a minute later and the reason he needs the holiday days is I’m pregnant will my first baby and he’d like to go to the appointments with me, the boss reluctantly agreed.
Another boss messaged him and asked how he were and told him people were coming back, but didn’t ask my husband to come back so it was a bit of a pointless text, he only texted him once throughout lockdown so he wasn’t really bothered “how he was”.
Throughout lockdown when my husband knew people were going back to work he was messaging the other boss asking when he was going back and he’d receive messages like “you’re on our radar, won’t be long” etc
So yesterday his work friend messaged him saying “oh I’ve asked “Greg” about you coming back to work and he said something about twisting tables, muttered under his breath and walked away” - my husband was confused by this so sent him a quick text and he said “Richard” was trying to call you yesterday, my husband didn’t receive a call and no email so “Richard” was trying to call him on the old number my husband had already changed with him.
My husband called “Richard” to see what was going on and he said I don’t have the information in front of me, I’ll call you tomorrow morning but was unsure how anyone else knew he was trying to call my husband as he hadn’t told anyone.
This morning my husband received a text from his friend at work to say “Rick (son of senior management) has told me you’re getting sacked”.
Low and behold he’s received a call this morning from
Richard to say the business no longer needs him (just him), I’ve told my husband to ask for an email with the content so we have it in writing but my husband feels like he’s being treated this way either because he didn’t take the holidays or because we’re having a baby as the company is very backwards that way and wouldn’t want him taking paternity leave etc - do we have a legal case?

@GimmeAy

Don't 'hun' me. I'm being helpful. I'm telling you that your DH hasn't a leg to stand on. It's useful for him to know for future jobs - if he values his job - he should be meticulous about trying to be flexible about holidays and such especially as he's barely in the door. I'm also being helpful in telling you to stop wasting your time thinking that there's a legal case - there's not. Tell him to start job-hunting.

I'm sure you could have said it in a nicer way, my husband isn't to blame, he didn't refuse to take the holidays he just asked the question as it's his first baby he wanted to be at the appointments we didn't know at the time whether he could attend or not, and they offered it on a "volunteer basis" at first, it's not my husbands fault someone failed to update it on the system when he's told HR and his manager about the change of number (they've both called/text him prior to the director so don't know why he had the old number). Thank you for your help, like I've said previously I understand there's nothing I can do and obviously my husbands looking for another job, looking for benefits, looking into the future of the pregnancy now, I've read all the comments and I understand there's nothing we can do.

I think you would be wise to focus your efforts on making sure he gets a good reference from the bosses and getting a new job. The baby and all the other details you’ve mentioned are irrelevant, he’s only been there since September and they are allowed to let him go.
There are going to be many people losing their jobs in the next few months.

Jeez GimmeAy do you have an empathy by pass?

The OP doesn't really need you coming late to the party to tell her that her DH doesn't have a leg to stand on. Several posters have already explained that more considerately than you Plus the OP has already explained that she's feeling really stressed and having to think about whether she may have to terminate her pregnancy.

Your snippy haranguing reveals a great deal.

Well the empathetic wishy washes were not getting through to the OP. She continued to argue. I'm never usually blunt, but she needs to learn that if you value your job (and in this climate you should), then you sell your soul to your employer to an extent. I thought my employer would be sympathetic to me after I took a week off after being raped. Were they fuck???!!!! When I raised an issue about another issue within the company they unceremoniously told me to go. So believe me - I am not on the side of the employer here and I think the 2 year law is ridiculous. But given that that is the law, you need to keep your snot clean for the first 2 years.

The Op could maybe look at putting the studying on hold for the meantime and trying to take on full-time hours. And her DH needs to start job hunting pronto. It sucks, but that's life.

Hi OP,
All of this sounds pretty crappy. I think the best thing to do would be to get your husband to contact ACAS www.acas.org.uk/ and do it ASAP. They can advise on all elements (in particular I had thought that dismissals had to be done in person but as others have said with less than a year’s service there are few protections).
Also make sure he has a full copy of his contract.

Does the company have an HR team?

Sorry this has happened to your family op. As others have said, there’s no action for unfair dismissal before 2 years service so your sh would only have an action if there was a discrimination issue (which it sounds like there wasn’t).

Good luck and

OP, I'm sorry if I've been blunt, but you've a few decisions to weigh up at the moment. Please don't bank on there being a legal case to answer though with the ex-employer.

I understand it's his first baby (not yours?) and you can prioritise that - unfortunately, employers don't care. They do not care.

Ps fathers have a legal right to unpaid time off for up to 2 antenatal appointments

@GimmeAy

OP, I'm sorry if I've been blunt, but you've a few decisions to weigh up at the moment. Please don't bank on there being a legal case to answer though with the ex-employer. I understand it's his first baby (not yours?) and you can prioritise that - unfortunately, employers don't care. They do not care.

It's both our first baby, sorry I'm not in the right frame of mind. I wasn't banking on a legal case, I was just asking and I understand there's nothing we can do. Thank you for your help.

@dewisant2020

Sorry *@VettiyaIruken* but your comment isn't all true, you are unable to take an explorer to a tribunal for unfair dismissal unless you've been employed for 2 years however you are correct about the discrimination but. If you read the link you provided it does actually tell you this

Yup. You're right, I misread that bit. Good job for the link and better readers than me 😁

I'm sorry that it's not better news for your DH OP. I know pregnancy, particularly your first is a shock to the system and you're so excited you can presume other people will be as excited. Unfortunately not...

Now, looking to the future, I'm assuming a termination is the last option you wish to use. If you want to brainstorm here, I'm sure there are very many helpful posters (more knowledgeable than myself) who could help you work around this some way so that you don't have the upset of considering that option - especially as your baby seems very much wanted. How far along are you?

You mentioned a warehouse - I'm sure that given the current climate and the prevalence of online shopping, he could easily pick up a new job. He needs to update his CV, and spend 8 hours a day job-hunting. Consider that his job for now. Tailor your CVs to each job and job spec, making sure that he addresses his experience of whatever the advertised job spec specifies?

It's a pain in the ass having to tailor each version of your CV, but an hour spent tailoring the CV and cover letter can be the difference between been considered or not. I used to spend about an hour or more on each application, keeping a record of who I had applied to as sometimes you can forget and apply twice or directly and via an agency.

Best of luck with the job hunting.

@GimmeAy makes fair points.

If you’ve been in a job less than 6mths and appear inflexible about taking holiday when asked due to an unprecedented set of circumstances then you’d better be sure you’re otherwise invaluable - Surely you must see that OP?!

Sounds like he was last in first out hes been inflexible with holidays which majority of companys have asked people to take annual leave whilst on furlough. He hasnt been there 2 years. In this current climate there will be redundancies. You havent got a legal leg to stand on.

How many appointments are you anticipating, that he wanted to reserve an entire week of holidays for?

Yes - it's cheaper for the employer to get rid of someone there under 2 years, than to pay redundancy payouts. So you really need to be beyond flexible for your employer in these times. I know it's shit, but as I said, it's the current climate.

If you can imagine the bosses going through employee files and saying - ok - we need to get rid of 10% asap and as cheaply as possible - your unfortunate DH might have been top of the list.

Op sorry this has happened to you, I can see how stressed you are, if I were you don’t engage with the nastier posters calling you Madame Etc , they are not worth your time and head space
It’s clear your upset n stressed
Wish you well with the job hunt for your dh as it’s clear you know that’s the most important thing right now
Good luck to you

@Lardlizard - don't pick me out. I was telling it as it is as nothing was getting through.

This is really tough OP and I am sorry you are in this situation.

It sounds as if the company have been on an absolute knife edge working very quickly to come up with a plan that works financially, and it depended on holidays amongst other things. I have been involved with an organisation trying to do the same thing and with dates and guidelines being hard to pin down it is so touch and go.

They probably needed to let someone go anyway, but the initial change of number and perceived prevarication over holidays may have irritated them.

I agree: the good reference is now key.

So hard.

and Lardlizard, I was not nasty at all. Madame.

Gimmeay I’m not going to waste my time talking to you, you don’t deserve it 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think your husband has been very unreasonably refusing to take holidays just in case your antenatal appointments came up. Some women have had to give birth without their husbands/boyfriends there nevermind simple appointments.

A bit of give and take should have been uppermost in your husband's mind. The boss probably thought if he's this difficult now given the global pandemic he'll be just as bad or worse when it is over or easing off.

Well Lardlizard don't slyly address me and call me nasty and then take the time to tell me that you're not going to waste your time on me. You're not helping the OP. Platitudes won't help the OP right now. Cold hard facts might.

@Kelcat9494

Thank you for all your help, I appreciate the help with this and I'm sorry if it feels like I've bitten anyone's head off. I do work yes, I work part time and I'm a full time student and without my husband working now, I need to consider whether I can afford to continue the pregnancy which is another reason why I'm probably sounding like a cow so I am sorry, you've all been brilliant with your advice. I'm not going to respond to anymore messages as it's clear there's nothing we can do. Thanks again xx

Give over GimmeAy -the Op had said she understood there was nothing they could do before you even arrived on to the thread like a Mumsnet version of Gazza, his chicken and fishing rods...