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Inheritance jumble

13 replies

JeffVaderneedsatray · 02/06/2020 23:13

Without going into too much detail....

If a person was the sole executor of a will is there a way to insist that they use an independent third party to help sort it all out?

Basically the estate is overly complicated as is the family. One side feels that the person, who is elderly, needs help with things like inheritance tax as we believe he has misunderstood the guidance and may make mistakes that will come back to bite us all in the arse. the other side think the person is not capable.
The person talks the talk, comes across as very intelligent and capable and would not be thought to be lackiing in capacity. They are also a person who will refuse to admit they have misunderstood or made a mistake.
One side of us would like them protected from themselves.
However they are resisting all suggestions that they seek an independent person to deal with inheritance tax etc. They are quite insulted that we think such a thing is needed.
The other side of the family may be likely to contest the will.
There is a complication that Scottish law is involved.
It's all a massive mess and I might cry.

OP posts:
Lochroy · 03/06/2020 14:08

Is the elderly person in question the sole executor you refer to?

ChicCroissant · 03/06/2020 14:12

I'm not familiar with Scottish law, certainly when my DH has been an executor any mistakes would rest with him personally and he'd be responsible for correcting them - not the estate.

Is this a partner of the deceased? I'm also going to assume that they are not well liked by the rest of the family, unfortunately.

FourPlasticRings · 03/06/2020 14:15

Well, it's up to the executor. Unless you have reason to doubt their capacity you'll have to leave them to it.

JeffVaderneedsatray · 03/06/2020 17:09

The elderly person is the executor.
They were married to the deceased. The deceased's children like him perfectly well but, like me, believe it is too complicated because of inheritance tax etc.
I am extremely concerned about personal liability.
I think the executor is, under normal circumstances, perfectly capable of dealing with it all given time and without the overhanging knife of personal liability.
I also think now is NOT the time to learn!
The other side think the executor's age makes them incapable and are muttering about things like capacity to act. They are also saying that if a solicitor/will specialist isn't used then they may contest the will.
I really really need the executor to agree to use an independent third party for their own protection.
In terms of capacity the executor is perfectly fit and well and is showing little signs of any diminished abilities.
It's all a big arsing mess.

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Lochroy · 03/06/2020 17:15

Is there something particularly complex/ unusual in the will? Will the executor accept any support from their children?

JeffVaderneedsatray · 03/06/2020 17:23

The will is not hugely complicated - all to the surviving spouse then split between offspring.
Scottish law, however, allows for that to be over ridden and part of the estate given to the children of the deceased should they choose to ask it.
There are several properties and investments. Inheritance tax WILL be an issue. Some properties and investments were held jointly. Some were not. If inheritance tax gets fucked up........
The executors child is trying to help him but doesn't believe she has the knowledge or skills needed. Her DH also doesn't believe he has the knowledge or skills needed. The children of the deceased are of the same mind.

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AmandaHoldensLips · 03/06/2020 17:40

I was named joint executor of a deceased's estate. Other other executor was a nightmare, hid a load of paperwork, and didn't bother to sort any part of the estate out. Lots of talk talk talk but didn't actually DO anything. Months went by. Clearly it was way beyond his capabilities but nobody was prepared to speak up until I blew my top.

I had to go to the coroner's court to have him removed as an executor then take everything on myself. Sending couriers up and down the country to get the papers back.

Sorting an estate isn't easy, but it's do-able if you have an eye for details and don't mind doing ten tons of paperwork. Anything to do with insurances, shares, pensions and investments is a nightmare. Everything has to be done via registered post and there are costs involved.

If the executor needs help, then offer it. Or they can instruct a solicitor to deal with it.

Either way, if you're concerned about it, best thing is to get a copy of the will so that you can offer to help.

ChicCroissant · 03/06/2020 17:52

IHT is a pain but not that complicated. There doesn't seem to be a reason for the executor not to act from what you've said. Are you the child who doesn't think she has the knowledge or skills?

JeffVaderneedsatray · 03/06/2020 18:20

Yes. I'm the child.
My big concern is either my step siblings push for the instruction of a solicitor, the executor refuses (because they believe they are totally capable and thus there is no need) and my step siblings then contest the will. I am concerned about contesting the will because of the breakdown of relationships that will follow - I love everyone concerned very much and cannot bear the thought of my family being torn.
OR - it is much more complicated that the executor believes, a mistake is made and they are then personally liable and once again the shit hits the fan.

I was just vainly hoping there would be a way for us to insist a solicitor/independent third party is used without any nastiness. I guess that isn't the case and I just need to strap in for a bumpy ride.

OP posts:
Lochroy · 03/06/2020 18:56

From what I can tell, your biggest fear is repercussions later on if IHT is calculated incorrectly? I'm sorry I can't answer your original question about forcing the appointment of an independent executor, but I did all my Dad's IHT and probate (which included 28 different investments, albeit none of significant value!). From my experience, it should be possible for your DF to share the will with your step siblings so they understand their mother's wishes and also share the valuations documents from the banks which would be used for IHT so there wouldn't really be grounds to argue. Perhaps also once your DF gets into it and understands what's required, he might be more open to help?

I'm not clear why your DF's ability to execute to will would result in it being contested, unless you mean contest the valuations and distribution of the estate rather than contents of the will?

JeffVaderneedsatray · 03/06/2020 20:23

Lochroy, yes, it's repercussions I fear the most.

We all know what the will says.

I'm trying not to give too many details in case my step siblings are also seeking advice anywhere and recognise this!

Basically there is a 'threat' that of DF doesn't appoint a solicitor then they will contest the will and invoke their rights under Scottish Law which their Mum wanted them to waive.

It's all just shit and I see no happy outcome.

Thank you all for your help and advice.

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Arewethereyet21 · 03/06/2020 20:52

I’m a Scottish solicitor specialising in this area of law and I would suggest your DF instructs a solicitor to deal with the estate, particularly if there are IHT consequences. I spend a lot of time fixing stuff that people try to deal with themselves, normally at a much greater cost to them than it would have been had I been instructed in the first place.

Children are entitled to legal rights in Scotland. This isn’t a matter of them ‘challenging or contesting the Will‘. Executors have a duty under Scots law to advise potential claimants of their entitlement (and a calculation of their entitlement) and ask them whether or not they wish to claim it. A claim for legal rights can be made for 20 years after death so if not dealt with can create a right mess many years down the road.

HMRC have come down quite heavily on Executors in recent years who have made incorrect declarations - and not only those who have done so deliberately.

So, although you cannot force an Executor to instruct a solicitor to deal with an estate there are so many potential complications and claims for which they may end up personally liable - so I would strongly advise that they do.

JeffVaderneedsatray · 04/06/2020 08:33

@Arewethereyet21 thank you. That's all very useful and helpful information.
I now feel better 'armed' to have a conversation with him.
As I am many hundreds of miles away I might have to write - that way he can't put the phone down on me if I say something he is reluctant to hear!
We do have a solicitor in the family - two layers out of the immediate circle IYSWIM - but her advice was ignored because she was not a specialist in this area! Now I can say I've 'talked' to someone who is and this is what they say.
Thank you.

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