Claiming unregistered land

[NCagainwhenwhenwhen]

Hi all. I haven't used this section of Mumsnet before but am hoping someone clever will be able to advise me.....

We bought our house in 2001. It has a small paddock next to it which we thought was part of the property, but it turned out not to be included on the deeds. There is a strip of land behind the garden which the seller said he had a right to use 'in perpetuity' but again there was nothing with the deeds. This all came out at the time of purchase so we knew. We assumed the paddock belonged to the same firm who owned the strip and the adjoining wooded copse - but a search revealed that the paddock does not belong to them, and isn't registered.

An elderly neighbour thinks it may have belonged to the council once, as they think they remember them using it store tarmac and gravel and etc, but certainly not since our seller bought the property in the mid 70s. I saw something online which said if the previous owner was the council we'd need to have been in possession for 30 years - so should I keep that quiet?

Our next door neighbours (other side of the paddock and copse) have also been there forever and I'm sure would swear an affidavit if necessary.

We have always used the paddock as our own - but I want to claim full title now, and thought I could download a form from the land registry - but everything I see on google suggests I need to go via a solicitor/conveyancer. Obviously this isn't the time to do that - does anyone know if I can do some/any of it myself or do I just need to wait and pay a solicitor when things get back to normal?

Thanks for any advice.

There is very comprehensive advice on the land registry website link below. A claim is unlikely to succeed on the limited info you have given since the changes to the law in 2003. www.gov.uk/government/publications/adverse-possession-of-1-unregistered-land-and-2-registered-land/practice-guide-5-adverse-possession-of-1-unregistered-and-2-registered-land-where-a-right-to-be-registered-was-acquired-before-13-october-2003

Having looked at it there is a caveat of 30 years if the land is government owned.

Thanks @cinderella66, I read all that but I must admit I didn't really understand most of it. Why would our claim not succeed? What changed in 2003?

I saw the thing about 30 years if the land is government owned. But we don't know that for sure, and I don't know how we could find out?

Of course we can go to a solicitor in due course, but it's good to find out as much as I can now so we know if it's worth it. (when I say a paddock I mean a very small piece of land about 30 ft wide and 80 ft long, at a guess).

Thanks for replying.

It’s not adverse possession though is it? It could be unregistered land.

Op I think you need a solicitor, they are still working.

Sorry ignore my reference to the 2003 act as the land is unregistered. The reason it isn't registered is because there has not been a conveyance since 1998 or before, depending on the area, to trigger registration. Often the land owner may be the crown. @Bluntness100 op says she has been caring and looking after the land for in excess of 12 years, without permission and openly and continuously which may fulfill the criteria for adverse possession. If the land does belong to the crown or LA then you have not fulfilled the 30 year requirement and in the absence of information as to who the owner might be, that is the chance you take in making an application now. It is possible in some circumstances the previous owner tending the land could count toward the time. It might be worth asking a good direct access barrister or a conveyancing solicitor specialising in this type of claim for an opinion.

I'm currently looking into the same thing op.

Are you in Scotland or England?

I'm in England @sestras.

From memory I think we started compulsory registration here in 1985, but certainly the previous owner considered it his when he bought our house in about 1975, so there won't have been a conveyance since well before that.

I don't know how one finds out who owns unregistered land. Does the solicitor have to advertise locally or something to invite claims?

Honestly, just contact a solicitor. They're still working albeit remotely. It's too easy for you to get it wrong if you try and save a few quid by doing it yourself.

If unregistered it could be virtually impossible. I had this when solicitor found that the extension on the house built in the 1960s want built on land owned by the house owner. Nightmare I thought but the solicitor was relaxed about it. When the property was registered in my name the land registry recorded the land the extension sat on as mine!

What it wouldn't do though was record ownership of the side driveway as mine.

In reality, the land belonged to the old local estate which sold off land in the early 1900s. The houses were built by the land formed a small roadway for the horse drawn cart to pull up and empty the privy!

I am told though it is a lot more difficult to deal with the issue now, certainly what you have but something like you have I would look towards the council or the old landowner which could be defunct

It's far from impossible with unregistered land. You just apply for first registration and if successful you get possessory title.

I wouldn’t recommend doing it yourself, it’s complicated. Most law firms are still working remotely, contact a good local firm with a decent conveyancing department (check reviews) and go from there.

It’s not adverse possession though is it? It could be unregistered land.

Sorry but that is wrong. All land belongs to someon, even if it doesn't show on the land registry, sites it is adverse possession.

Absolutely seek advice on this from a Conveyancer. If the lands unregistered then you'll have to apply for First Registration using Statutory declarations from yourself, and ideally any other parties who might be able to help (such a previous owners etc) to cover at least 12 years of undisputed continuous use. If there are any deeds which support your claim, submit them too. It can get quite complicated with a fair amount of work (surveys/sending notices etc) to do. It can be a bit tricky to figure out on your own, although that said, LR do have specialist teams to deal with applications from non conveyancers who can help to try to make the process easier to understand.