Dispute with landlord

[Pemba]

We have been in this property about 8 months. Initially on six month fixed contract, now it's rolled over onto month-by-month.

Unfortunately, even though the rent is not cheap, the landlord appears to be one of those who wants to pay out as little as possible for maintaining his property.

About a week before lockdown began we noticed the downstairs toilet was blocked. No we hadn't put anything strange down it, as I understand some people do! Rang the letting agents and they called back the next day, and said the landlord was refusing to do anything. So as I realised lockdown was approaching I went ahead and got a plumber who said a specialist drain company would be needed. Drain company came out, long story short they fixed it but said it was caused by a structural fault with the pipework, not our fault, and would probably reoccur in a few months unless remedial work was done. They sent in a bill, it was just under £200 - to be fair they had had to make 2 visits and use extra powerful equipment to clear the blockage.

We've paid the bill, and passed the details onto letting agents asking for us to be reimbursed as not our responsibility. However they have repeatedly refused, saying it is not up to them to decide what to pay for , it was the landlord's decision. However I have been legally advised that this should be the landlord's responsibility, as under the landlord and tenant act 1985 he is responsible for this. It also states this within our tenancy agreement. That seems to make no difference though - letting agent won't budge.

A lawyer I contacted from our house insurance advised me to take the landlord to the small claims court to reclaim this money. The landlord is not fulfilling his side of the contract. However I am worried about this, because what if they give us notice in retaliation?

Added to this, I saw a bloody rat in the garden a few days ago. Never had this before in any property we've lived in. It may be coming from the neighbours at the back possibly, as they have a large shed which runs along our back fence. But what to do? I have tried the Council, but they are not coming out at the moment due to lockdown. I understand private companies are still operating, but I don't want to get landed with another bill for something not our fault.

What would you do, and does anyone have any legal knowledge that could apply? Just wanted to get another opinion.

How do we know there's not been an issue before? We've only been in there a few months. I suspect it has occurred before and the landlord knows about it but is too tight to pay for a proper fix. This would tie in with other issues around the house/works not finished off properly.

As for 'how could the landlord know' as I've said before we lived over 7 years at another property, same letting agents and never caused such a problem. Letting agents have hopefully impressed this on the new landlord but I don't know.

Maybe it was an issue before, maybe they tried to hide it and thus would made them poor landlords. If that is the case, you'd better consider looking at somewhere else to rent.

Alternatively, they are decent Landlords and your tradesperson is looking for an easy one.

Hopefully they will send someone of their choice soon enough and they will do what is required if anything.

Well I would suggest they've already shown themselves to be not decent landlords by a blanket refusal to look into a problem they're actually liable for. Like I said, a reasonable thing to do would have been to send someone out to investigate, if they had discovered misuse they would then have been justified in passing the cost on. I suspect the stupid letting agent should have done that and explained the situation clearly to the landlord , that's why he's being so belligerent in covering his tracks. He thought he could fob us off.

Letting agents have made many other mistakes over the years, no inventory on the first property we rented, data protection breaches (accidently given personal details of another tenant) etc etc. They are amateurish.

Interesting too what was said up thread about letting agents working in cahoots with their preferred contractors. A few years ago when work was being done on the other house I rang the mobile of the contractor. It was answered by one of the letting agents, his partner obviously, which I think I wasn't supposed to know!

If I called out drain 'experts' everytime a tenant causes a blocked toilet I think I would change my profession as I would make a fortune as a dynarod technician. Tenants often suggest an issue with the drains but don't have those problems when they realise they have to pay. The first time we will clear it for them free of charge with advice on what they should not put down the toilet. Tampons, sanitary towels, wet wipes, so called 'flushable' wipes, rags, nappies etc etc. After that they pay. It's usually wet wipes and tampons . . .

You really have poor reading comprehension skills don't you? Your comments are irrelevant

Pemba, you're wasting your time there!

You are right Goaty, best to just ignore!

I agree they should have got someone in in the first instance although thinking they could have charged you afterwards if shown to be due to lifestyle use is naive as they could never have insisted on this.

In almost all cases, blockage are due to poor use of the toilet which after months end up with a blockage. A structural problem would have expected to show issue much earlier than 8 months.

But yes, I would have sent someone. I did previously, it did turn out to be the tenants misuse. What I refused to do is sent someone urgent at 11pm which would have cost me a fortune and said I'd call someone in the morning. They were ok with that.

Have you called the water board? They are a free service, the letting agents should have said to call them first. They can carry out an investigation and see what the problem is. If there is a rat problem, there could be damage somewhere in the sewer where rats are using it. x

You need to change where you get your legal advice because I would be very confident you would not succeed in court and I've dealt with quite a few disrepair matters in a professional capacity. The landlord and tenant act 85 does say that sanitation must not be kept in disrepair, which if you read it thoroughly also says tenants must behave in a tenant like manner. This stems from the leading case Lord Dennings 53 judgment in Warren and Keene which states tenants should act in a tenant like manner. This has been interpreted over the years as carrying out those normal jobs that a householder would do. Unblocking a drain is one of those things unless you can show on the balance of probability the issue is due to disrepair or design fault. If the drain has become blocked on one occasion in 8 months it's not a fault. If you went to court on this the judge would either enter judgment against you or give directions that an independent survey be carried out by a surveyor or other expert. In these cases the requirement is those reports be paid for by the disputing parties equally. Not worth paying out half of 300 quid for a survey for a 200 quid bill. If you were my tenant I would serve you a s21 as i would not want you as a tenant because of your attitude which is combatant rather than concilatory. By way of illustration as to the type of issues tenants think are the landlords fault, I have had complaints about gnats (one of my properties is next to the river), ants infestation ( a ground floor flat, yes really, buy some ant killer), the door lock being broken (nothing wrong with it, the door latch had been put down), a blocked toilet ( I bought her a plunger and showed her how to use it, caused by tampons), a power cut (ffs), a dishwasher not washing properly (add salt), the cooker not working (read the manual, it worked). So if I had called out a locksmith the tenant would be £160 down, rentokil for ants £100, cooker engineer £80, dishwasher engineer £80, electrician £80, dynarod, £100. Do you see where this is going? I suspect if you carry on with this you will receive a s21 in the post. I apologise for my previous post where I said you have an attitude, you just don't understand basic landlord and tenant law and burden of proof.

Honestly totally agree with Cinderealla. Even if you are successful with the CCJ, are you prepared to pay the costs, then the extra costs of enforcement without any guarantee that you will recover any money?

I agree with cinders - there’s can’t be a structural problem with the drain if it’s been fine for 8 months. Also £200 is very steep to clear a drain. I had one done for £80 a couple of months ago.

Problem is due to a bow in the pipe apparently which has caused limescale to build up. This gradually causing it to get blocked with only normal contents of a toilet. I dunno, not being a plumber obviously I believed the drain company. It is true that it took them 2 visits to clear the blockage, 2nd visit with extra powerful equipment. You say that if there was a structural problem it would have showed up before 8 months, but could this not be explained by it being the downstairs loo and getting a lot less use than the main upstairs?

Someone said they would send me a section 21 as I had a combative attitude. Yes I do feel combative about it. I started off sending friendly messages to the agents hoping they were doing OK in the current crisis. I really thought they would help us. But now I wonder if they even contacted the landlord.
Anyway I think we are better off moving as I don't feel they or landlord can be trusted and I have a feeling rat problem is something that will be hard to eradicate from the street, it creeps me out. So section 21 is a moot point really. But I think we'd better sort out somewhere else first, then consider small claims.

I agree with you, the relationship seems to have broken down and because if that, I would move.

However, I really would think twice about taking out a CCJ for the reasons I stated earlier.