Another executor/will thread

[Housr]

Hello,

Wondering if anyone can help me out. We are 3 sisters and father died 6 months ago. He left Sister 1 money and me and other sister his property. Sister 2 is the executor (we were left house together). Sister 2 sorted out all accounts at first and paid full money to Sister 1. Sister 2 said she has been trying to get probate for the house but it is taking a while. Everytime I ask her she gives me some vague answer about the delay. Sister 2 is saying she would like to continue owning the house but has also said she doesn't want to buy me out and if she did we could do it without a solicitor etc Here are my questions:

1. How long does probate take?
2. Are we likely to have to pay inheritance tax on the house? In which case would sister 1 have to pay too?
3. Sister 2 (the executor) has up until this point not consulted a solicitor or any legal advice. Is she meant to?
4. Was sister 2 meant to wait for probate before paying sister 1?
5. Once probate has been granted how does it work with having the house transferred into our names (sorry no experience in this)
6. I am wondering the time frame of these things as the money from the house would make a massive difference to me but not so much to Sister 2.
7. If sister 2 were to buy me out is there a quick yet fair method to this?

Many thanks.

So she wants you to wait indefinitely for your inheritance ? As she doesn’t really want to buy you out but wants to keep living there??
So how exactly does she think you get your inheritance
Other sister has had her money, she has the house and you have ....what exactly???
I would take legal advice, as this is not how it works.
If she wants to buy you out get 3 valuations at least 2? chosen by you ( as it’s in her interests to keep value down) And go for the average.
She gets a mortgage or liquidates savings to pay you

You can apply for probate online, you don't need a solicitor. This would give her the right to sell the house, it doesn't give you any rights/protection.
As executor she should follow the will, if she doesn't then you could take her to court.
Your sister is fine to have money she has received, but a solicitor would advise sister 2 to hold on to everything in a separate executor bank account until 6 months after probate is granted. (However, if you know there is no random wife or other child who might appear to make a claim then you should be fine)
You will pay inheritance on the value of the full estate, including cash. You only pay it if the estate is worth over a certain amount though (somewhere around 3-350k I think) you can google it though.
Probate takes 4-6 weeks I believe, but with covid who knows??
If you sell your share then you definitely need a solicitor to transfer deeds etc. I would imagine you will need a solicitor just to transfer deeds from your dads name to your names once probate is granted anyway or if you decide to sell it on open market.

Im not an expert but we are currently in a will dispute so had quite a lot of legal advice lately. Hope it helps

1. How long probate takes depends on the complexity of the estate. But if it's just cash and property I would expect it to take less than 6 months.
2. Do you know roughly the overall value? If it is over 325,000 it will be exempt from inheritance tax, but Probate basically means showing and valuing all the assets to see if you owe the Revenue money. The tax owed is taken from the Estate and then the remaining funds are passed down to the beneficiaries. So I am not sure how this is going to be fair to all, as it's likely to have to be paid from the estate's cash.
3. At the very least, I would have expected her to contact the solicitor who drew up the will. Filing probate can be straightforward but it sounds like she isn't really competent.
4. Sister 2 absolutely has to wait for Probate to be filed and finalized before paying sister one. In fact when you register the death, the bank accounts are frozen until probate is granted.
5. Once probate is granted, then the executor needs to carry out the terms of the will. You will absolutely need a conveyancing solicitor for this. If sister 2 is buying you out, she needs to pay half the value of the property to you (if the will is stated as such) at the value it was on the date of death (although there are some exceptions in the event that the value of the property has significantly risen or fallen). Bertha is right, as above, the fair thing to do is 3 valuations and go for average at the time of sale.

If I were you I would be seriously concerned about your sister 2's abilities and would go as far as to say I think she might be doing you over. She cannot pay sister 1 the cash. Have you seen a copy of the will?

Probate can be very quick nowadays- my friends dm died at the end of February 2020 and probate was granted beginning of April - 2 weeks after it was submitted - that was for property and cash - under inheritance tax limit.

Thanks everyone. Now I am confused. She received all money from father's bank accounts and gave it mostly to sister 1 and the money leftover to grandchildren (also in the will). She mentioned we may have to pay inheritance tax but maybe not. I'm not sure why she distributed money before this to sister 1 without waiting for probate. The total estate is over 350k, and I doubt sister 1 will return any money or pay a percentage of inheritance tax now she has the money.

Also not sure why probate has taken over 6 months... Seems a very long time but she is like this in general, take a long time to get anything done. I will chase up with her again.

I would suggest you check if probate has been filed, it costs a nominal amount. www.gov.uk/search-will-probate Did she have a power of attorney on the bank accounts before your father died? You will need a solicitor to handle the property transfer for sure. Hmrc will claw back any monies owed to them for sure, sister 1
Will potentially have to pay some back, sorry. It would be classed as tax fraud if you don’t pay.

I did my mums probable end of Dec and it was done by end of January although it was quite simple

OP. Sounds like the estate has been mis administrated. I think you need to get some proper legal advice. Money shouldn't have been laid out prior to probate and understanding fully the liabilities on the estate.

Could be messy to sort out

Agree with MarieG10. There is no way your sister should have started distributing the estate at this stage. As she has done so, she may now be personally liable for sister 1's share of any inheritance tax and any amount by which she has overpaid sister 1. From your perspective, you should receive the full amount you would have received if the estate had been administered correctly. This could, indeed, be messy.

Please, please get advice from a proper solicitor. Just because things can be done online doesn't mean that it's always the best option. There is too much value at stake to cut costs. You'd get a mechanic to fix your car if something went wrong - sometimes things are too important not to use an expert.
No, executors aren't obliged to get legal advice but there are definitely situations where they should. Also, the probate registries are under massive strain at the moment and waiting two or three months from the date the grant application is submitted is quite normal at the moment (it used to be two weeks).

Thanks all. I am not the executor so obtaining legal advice for myself wouldn't really be useful would it? I would have done things differently if I were the executor (speaking to a solicitor etc). I did chase up with my sister. She said she is still waiting to hear back from probate

Can you ask her what exactly is she waiting for from probate ?

I am not the executor so obtaining legal advice for myself wouldn't really be useful would it

The way things are going it may be. You may have to take her to court to get the full inheritance to which you are entitled. Of course, you may not want to go there as this is your sister.

My mother died on 29 Feb, I applied for probate in March and it came through 3 weeks later in April. I was quick though, having done it before.
The executor should pay only the funeral bill before probate is granted. If inheritance tax is due it must be paid before anything else.

OP don't forget that ensuring your DDad's wishes are carried out is her duty as executor. If you feel squeamish about getting legal advice, please don't. His will is his will and needs to be settled as he wanted.
So sorry that your Dad died.

It seems that there's a large degree of variation in how long it takes for probate to be granted. Like any other court process presumably it depends on capacity to deal with it. My mum's estate was very straightforward (only banks involved, home long sold to pay for social care). No inheritance tax, so I could do everything online and dealt with it as executor. It was suggested that process could be very short, but in fact it took around four months between me submitting my application and having it granted before I could send the official paperwork to the banks involved. So I don't think you can assume it's your sister's fault that it's taking a while.

However, I don't see how your sister can possibly be legally allowed to pay out money to anyone in advance of probate and all that it entails, HMRC and inheritance tax, debts owed being paid off, etc; being granted. After all, there could be all soughts of valid claims on the estate, and probate is used to deal with that.

It took many months for probate to come through on my father's estate, this was several years ago. Took over a year to settle everything. At the time the solicitor said that estates where there was property and inheritance tax were taking longer than other estates.
Inheritance tax is £500k when property is being left to the children. I'm not sure on the rules about the property/cash mix. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to be paid before inheritance taxes are paid.

Just to add my uncle died in July, estate being dealt with by family solicitor and we are still waiting for it to be settled. No property but IT to be paid and shares to sell.

Once she has submitted the forms to probate, assuming they don’t find any irregularities which they need to follow up then it should only take a few weeks to get the grant of probate. Then inheritance tax and anything else owing such as unpaid income tax should be paid before the estate can be divided up. How did your sister gain access to the money in your father’s bank account? - as a PP said the account should have been frozen when he died although banks will generally allow funeral expenses to be paid. I think there would be an exception if your sister’s name was also in your father’s accounts.

yes OP you should get legal advice for you as a beneficiary rather than for the estate as a whole.

My MIL's estate took over a year. It was a pretty standard estate and there was inheritance tax due. Solicitors were just very slow. The longest bit was actually waiting for HMRC to sigh off.

"I think there would be an exception if your sister’s name was also in your father’s accounts." > MrsFezziwig. Not sure about this, as my mum's bank accounts had been transferred to 'Mrs So and So, deputy for Mrs So and So' once it was decided she'd lost mental capacity and I became her deputy. I got the accounts frozen when I registered her death. I was no longer able to access the accounts and had to pay for my mum's funeral, etc myself, and then was eventually able to get the money back once I received my inheritance.

I'm also really puzzled as to how your sister was able to pay off your other sister without probate. The banks don't normally release funds without the appropriate proof. We've had to do probate 3 times recently and it's been speedy (a few months at most) each time. Something seems a bit off and I'd take legal advice as suggested.

Your sister seems to be lying and has got herself into a bit of a mess! As the estate is over £325k inheritance tax would need to be calculated before any funds were distributed based on the full value of the estate. This included a valuation of the property by a RICS approved valued. Did your father and mother own the property previously? If so, it’s possible that your mother’s allowance (if she has died) could be passed on to your father’s which means the threshold can be increased to £650k for inheritance tax. This has to be applied for though I believe.

Once the value of the estate has been established minus any allowed deductions, HMRC must be informed of what tax will be due. Next, if the cash is available, the bank needs to authorise the payment. Once this payment has been made, HMRC will issue a receipt that can be used to apply for probate so your sister can begin to sort the estate. Only then can the house be sold/funds distributed.

You need to get legal advise - it won’t be cheap.

*advice