Neighbour Builders - Access through house

[keyboardwarrior1]

My elderly father lives in a terrace of houses. Access to all the gardens is only possible through the houses themselves.

His neighbours want to build an extension to their home. This will come right up to the boundary between the two properties. They have told him/me that their builders will need access to his garden through his house for the duration of the build and that he is legally obliged to agree to this.

DF is in his 90s and has dementia. This will be profoundly disturbing for him. Does he have the right to refuse access?

I have suggested to the neighbours that they demolish part of the wall between the two gardens. This would allow their builders to access his garden to do any necessary work on his side but would not require them to enter his house. This would be bad enough, but they have said they do not want to do this. My suspicion is that they are not keen on builders having unfettered access to their home while they are out and are trying to see if they can use DF’s home as a solution.

I am actually so p off that I am now tempted to give them a flat NO.

@Comefromaway Look at para 27 on page 18

27 What about access to neighbouring property?
See paragraph 20.

That still doesn't describe this situation where access is not being denied totally.

I have just gone through the party wall agreement situation with my DM. She’s 95 and the neighbours wanted access through her garden to build their extension so that’s very similar.

DM referred the request to me. DH, who has a party wall surveyor in his company, said absolutely “No” to using her property as access. It is perfectly possible to dig foundations and build from your own land. It’s cheaper and easier to use someone else’s but we would suggest you do not agree to this.

The PWA also requires an agreement if there are existing buildings within a certain distance of the new building. From memory around 3m. You can check that.

Our PWA describes the existing buildings my DM owns, agreed working hours and the build will be completed from their side. However the down side of this is that the finish facing your side might not be great.

You must ask the neighbour for a PWA. They must appoint a party wall surveyor. They will propose a PWA but you say you do not agree and then you appoint your own PW surveyor to act for you. They pay.

Ensure the agreement covers access, times they can work, making good any damage, record of existing standard and quality of buildings and an agreement regarding possible length of work (you don’t want this taking 2 years). Hope that helps.

Two things to add to all the good advice you have had already:
When we built an extension, the planners checked with our neighbours whether they were content that the wall should form the new boundary. If our neighbours had not agreed, the wall would have needed to be some small distance away from the boundary and there would have been no reason at all for our builders to access their land.
In the event, our neighbours did agree to it forming the boundary. Our builders built entirely from our land, with the exception of about one week when they tidied the brickwork pointing from their side (so it looked nicer for them) and when they put the gutter up. It goes without saying that as we are not complete arses we did not for one moment consider sending our builders through their property but removed a fence panel temporarily instead.
Incidentally, if the wall will form the boundary, make sure the guttering is recessed or it will overhang your DF's garden.

Neighbour put up extension almost to boundary. Had to be further back to allow for guttering etc to stay within their side. They did party wall agreement. They did ALL the building work from their side. Your father's neighbours are complete CFs.

Don't allow access to house or garden. Insist on party wall agreement.

Yes they must allow for guttering although they get round this by slipping the roof so the rainfall is forward.

I’d say no access! Cheeky buggers

Tell them no way and tell father he must not answer the door.
Get advise from council too.
If you can let your father stay with you while work going on and they definitely can't get in.
I'd go to your fathers local police station too for advice and tell them the neighbours are being rather intimidating. X

We had this problem with our entitled neighbours, who came round and said we’re just going to dig up this bit of your garden! Didn’t even say please, so we refused access to their builders. All building work was done from their side, including pointing.
The party wall act does NOT entitle neighbours to access your house or your garden in order to build a new wall.

Would all those who maintain on this thread that the PWA can’t deal with access rights please take a look at this www.mypropertyguide.co.uk/articles/display/10081/what-is-a-party-wall-agreement.htm and s8 of the PW Act www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/40/section/8 The Act means that a PWA award can include rights of access.

If you still think the Act can’t deal with rights of access do let me know.

Sigh - but a PWA has to be agreed to in the first place via a specific legal process and it hasn’t and won’t be.

No, there is no "legal" obligation to do that & any agreement should be made via solicitors with both parties in agreement & signed into law incase of problems. They provide & pay for everything if this happens.

In short, they are CFers & trying it on. It's not a party wall either

You both seem to misunderstand the definition of "agreement" in the context of the Act. It is an agreement between the surveyors, or, of the surveyors cannot agree, a third surveyor gets to decide. That is the specific legal process.

If you bothered to red the Act, you would see in section 10, it is provided, inter alia:

(10)The agreed surveyor or as the case may be the three surveyors or any two of them shall settle by award any matter—

(a)which is connected with any work to which this Act relates, and

(b)which is in dispute between the building owner and the adjoining owner.

(11)Either of the parties or either of the surveyors appointed by the parties may call upon the third surveyor selected in pursuance of this section to determine the disputed matters and he shall make the necessary award.

There is even provision for either of the parties to challenge the "award":

(16)The award shall be conclusive and shall not except as provided by this section be questioned in any court.

(17)Either of the parties to the dispute may, within the period of fourteen days beginning with the day on which an award made under this section is served on him, appeal to the county court against the award and the county court may—

(a)rescind the award or modify it in such manner as the court thinks fit; and

(b)make such order as to costs as the court thinks fit.

Therefore it does not require OP's consent - merely the consent of the surveyor appointed to represent OP's interests.

Oh, and it is a wall subject to the Party Wall Act - see s1(4).

@Collaborate I agree that the PWA deals with access rights.

However in the circumstances described by the OP no surveyor is going to award a right of access through the OPs fathers house. Won’t happen.

Such a right of access might be used for example where neighbour 1 had removed a chimney on the PW, compromising the integrity of the wall and neighbour could insist on access for remediation.

It’s all somewhat academic at this stage because it appears no PW is in place. OP you need to ensure this us done.

I’ve read the entire thing along with the accompanying guidance document.

At no point have I ever suggested that a PWA surveyor would grant access through OP’s father’s house. In fact I’ve said the precise opposite.

Some posters have suggested that the neighbour cannot get access rights through the Act. Clearly, they can; just it’s not likely to be the kind of access they’re asking for.

@Comefromaway If you’ve read the Act and guidance and still think that Sigh - but a PWA has to be agreed to in the first place via a specific legal process and it hasn’t and won’t be. i.e. OP has a veto and they can simply refuse to agree, whatever the surveyors decide, there is clearly nothing more I can say to you, as the words in the Act seem to hold no meaning to you.

I have no advice to give but I am gobsmacked that these CF think they can access their building work through your DFs house.

I'm not a lawyer but CFs like your Dad's neighbour might try it on by claiming DF agreed to them using his house/land or by coercing him into agreeing them access. Therefore I would get a solicitor's letter informing them of the PoA and that all decisions must be referred to you and recording delivery -ing it to their house so there is no misunderstandings.Or you could write the letter yourself and proof of delivery of it.

@MissSmith1 good advice

Having just been thru this crap with my entitled neighbours it's a party wall act issue and a surveyor will sort it out for you. If you think they won't serve a notice or if they start works without a notice you have to threaten them with legal proceedings as the act is light on enforcement mechanics. The poster above whose husband is a builder set it all out very well and accurately. It will not be an unfettered right to enter on land or the house. It's usually agreed as limited access to extent required on prior notice.

My cf neighbours were in the process of negotiating a party wall agreement but decided to rip their roof off anyway.... Basically because they'd been too cheap to appoint their own surveyor until we forced them too. Even he thought they were arseholes. They've also managed to breach it a couple of times by sending builders to walk all over our roof and leave in covered in building mortar which they left to set. Charming. I think you need a firm hand with these ones.

Just to say thank you to all who have posted on this thread. Appointment with solicitor is tomorrow. I was worried that the neighbours might try to start work this week. Fortunately DF is staying with another family member this week - pre arranged/nothing to do with this issue - so they would not be able to gain access this week.

I hope the solicitor can sort this for you

I haven't read the whole thread, but NO, NO, NO.

The neighbours can sod off!
I've never heard this is legal, in fact the opposite. Way can't the neighbours use their other neighbours?

I've heard if people charging £££ for neighbours to have access to their gardens for scaffolding etc....but never access to their homes, especially if they want it for free and are threatening a man in his 90's!!!

Solicitor was very reassuring.

She is writing to the neighbours as a premptive measure to say that
DF has dementia and does not have capacity to consent to access. Any requests relating to this matter must therefore go through attorneys/solicitors. That is to stop builders turning up some day when DF is alone and him letting them in.

She also said that as they have not formally requested access the problem may never arise. If it does, we would have the choice between insisting all work be done from the neighbour’s side or allowing limited access through his garden. They would have to pay for wall to be demolished, and make good any damage on his side. We could insist on specific timings with penalty clauses for any over run. Advantage of allowing this would be that the finish on DF’s side would be better.