Neighbours added to DF's Will....he had dementia at time of change!

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Name change as this is very outing and could identify me but Mumsnet headquarters will verify that I'm a long standing member.

My DF had vascular dementia and this is documented as far back November 2015, although this is not the earliest that it was noted. Sadly he died on Christmas Eve and in all honesty it's a blessing as he had no quality of life.

He had an original mirror Will with his partner who died three months later of a virus in April 2015. As a result DF needed round the clock care and we found a suitable dementia place in a care home.

Here's the thing! They both changed their Wills, to include their neighbours, using a local solicitor in January 2015 (his new signature is not even identifiable as his!). Following his partner's death in April 2015 we applied for Power of Attorney using the same solicitor but we were told that the GP said that he didn't have capacity so we would need to apply for Court of Protection. This we duly did but using a solicitor local to us as we didn't trust the integrity of the solicitor who facilitated the Will change.

The neighbours stopped visiting DF until one turned up last week just before he passed away.

The money isn't a lot as we paid high care fees but it would be nice to give his DGC the majority as would have been the case.

How do I go about contesting this? What evidence would I need and should I approach the original solicitor about it or see someone else??

Thank you for ready and any advise is welcome.

*for reading

Try the Law Society. Not sure if they can help, but they will know who can.

Good luck and I'm sorry for your loss.

If he didn't have capacity, is the will even legal and binding?

Definitely contest it. Something very wrong with the will

That's my thoughts entirely and I should have done something about it before he passed away but I kept putting it off!

If you were me would you contact the solicitor who helped changed the Will, give him the timeline showing concern and see what he has to say?

You may be able to challenge the will on the grounds that he lacked testamentary capacity, or that the neighbours exercised undue influence, or possibly that he didn't understand and approve of the will he signed. You need to consult a solicitor that specialises in contentious probate.

As a family we are absolutely certain that had he had capacity he would never in million years agreed to this but obviously we can't prove this now!

No I wouldn't bother contacting the lawyer who did the wills. If you want to, once you have all your facts in order, you could report him to the Law Society

My limited understanding is that the solicitors in question should have been satisfied that your DF was of sound mind to make those decisions and if there was any question of doubt there should be a medical opinion stating that he was able to understand and make those changes.
I think your first port of call would be them! X

I thought about contacting the original solicitor to ask if he had a medical declaration from my DF's GP that states that he had capacity at the time, given that he had vascular dementia and his signature is illegible.

I am not an expert but have seen a few friends go through similar within family and one almost parallel to your case. Prudence tells me that from this point on I'd only let my solicitor to do all contact with others including DF's solicitor. This will put things on sharp basis and all questions etc. will have to be answered correctly, no glib rubbish or meandering paragraphs over the phone to neighbours / DF's solicitor. Every thing recorded.

Keep pleasant, chatty if needed when clearing house etc, but keep off legal topics - neighbours will be digging for info from you. Let your own solicitor advise you, he is paid to take on the burden. Do not take it on speculating, it'll eat you up and in the end you can only recompense what yr solicitor and law will allow you, so it will be an enormous speculation-calculation sessions in your own mind for nothing. The worst in these cases is taking on enormous stress of it all. Most stress due to incidental talk from protagonists, which getting irked and more calculating thinking wondering what happened in those months. Avoid that by letting solicitors talk to each other to get to bottom of things. Chivvy them along, it pays to do that cos' legal eagles always let cases sit if they can get away with it, but be careful not to be unreasonably demanding or that will be careless and want out of it. It will go much more slowly than you think, don't get frustrated by that (more stress).

Sorry to read about your loss, hope this helps.

Yeah you would need that information as if they did have it I think contesting the will would be harder. I will ask my partner for you as he is a trainee private client solicitor x

Do you have legal cover on your home insurance? You need a specialist lawyer who can challenge the will on lack of testamentary capacity. Definitely challenge the will.

Thank you everyone, I'm reading it all. I could really do without the stress as I've also got to organise a funeral too but I also need to do right by other members of my family. I hate the obvious injustice!!!

Def. check your house insurance, if nothing else you might have a helping to speak to,

I'll ask DH about house insurance. The thought of going along this route with high cost implications stresses me too as I've no idea how much it could cost!

Sorry for the loss of your dad.

No, do not contact the original solicitor directly - appoint a solicitor locally who has knowledge of probate and explain your concerns, and he or she can make the appropriate enquiries. If your father did not have capacity in April 2015 it seems highly unlikely (albeit not impossible) that he was capacitous in January 2015 and so the latest will may well be invalid. Ultimately you could end up issuing proceedings against the original solicitor if (s)he was negligent and the estate has suffered a loss, so it is important that you take independent legal advice. Good luck.

The cost of the challenge will hit the estate. How much money is there to distribute as a challenge may just wipe it out and leave you out of pocket.

However, if there was medical evidence of his illness it won't immediately mean he was incapable of understanding what he did as some people at the early stages of dementia can have understanding but this does not sound to be the case for your relative. You would probably need a medical opinion based on his notes but they are not always that detailed!

Look up Larke v Nugus request. It sounds like a good idea in this situation to make such a request. It shouldn`t be too difficult or costly to do so. There is lots of information on the web.

Also, you may find this website helpful.
www.wrighthassall.co.uk/expertise/contesting-will/

Thank you to everyone for taking the time to reply. Sorry that it's taken me awhile to come back to the thread but I've been incredibly busy trying to organise the funeral.

Also thank you for your condolences. At my age is seems that all I'm doing is burying close family 😢

@informedisgood I'm most certainly going to carry out Larke v Nugus. Is never heard of this and there in lies the power of Mumsnet!

Do you know if I can approach the solicitor myself with the letter? In the meantime I'm also going to contact my father's GP and ask if at the time the Will was changed he was asked his opinion on my father's cognitive health.

Once again thank you so much 🙏🏼 💕

Agree that Larke v Nugus letter is the way forward (I’m a will writer).

I suggest that the letter is sent by a solicitor who specialises in contested probate so that the most pertinent questions are asked.

You can then take a view on whether to pursue a claim based on a cost to benefit analysis.

I’m sorry for your loss and hope you’re ok

Thank you @pimples I agree that I should use a solicitor. I spoke with my DF's GP yesterday about his cause of death and he said that it was bronchial pneumonia as a result of vascular dementia and old age. He confirmed that DF had had strokes in 2012 and May 2015. I told him our concerns about the Will change in January 2016 and the last thing that the GP said to me was that I shouldn't hesitate to get in touch should I need anything else!

PRH47bridge above is a lawyer.

Follow their advice.

So sorry you have this to deal with.