Breach of covenant

[zarah21]

Hi folks

My mum recieved an upsetting letter this morning from a solicitor, she is being asked to pay at least £4000 within 2 weeks or go to court for breaching a conventant. It stipulates you cannot have an outhouse, shed, hut etc on the land. Only thing is, it was there when she bought it!! She actually hasn't built anything. Does anyone know where she stands in this situation? Any help greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks x

I don't know how I would go about finding out if it was ever paid. Oh god, what a mess. I spoke to her again last night, it transpires the garage was very old indeed, so much so the surveyor mentions needing funds to fix it. In the end she just paid to make it watertight. Does that change matters? Like, she did something to make it in good working order, will this hinder her position?

Thanks for all your advice. One thing she definitely doesnt need right now. Ive told her to take the letter and her deeds to a solicitors monday morning with the EA original picture, showing it existed. Either way she'll end up paying someone, something, not ideal. She is on universal credit £33 per week, she cant even walk properly and has been crying all evening to me about this letter.

They say it comes in threes....

Read the post from Collaborate and follow his advice.

So, has she paid or not? But latest post suggests both.

No solicitor should be sending letters to someone making claims on behalf of their client that have no legal basis. they are lending an air of legitimacy to a scam. That is why the regulator, the SRA, would/should be interested to hear about it.

No need to go to a solicitor just yet.

She has paid nothing to no one yet. She was just going to her solicitors for the free half hour. I was hoping one letter from them at minimal cost may make it go away. (Naive perhaps)

When I mentioned, I dont know how I find out if it was ever paid, it was in relation to blouseandskirt saying if you can show the 10 shillings was paid when the garage was erected, you're fine.

What she has paid for is the garage to be made watertight, so she has had work done on it. I was wondering if that made her liable.

If I report to the SRA, I worry it will get their backs up. They are giving her 14 days to pay the sum, demolish the breach or go to court and pay their fees too. So the costs will escalate. She doesn't even have 4.5k to pay them.

I worry as some posters say she could be liable, if I report solicitors, how can I word it? Threatening letter sent? Xan I say jo grounds whennim not sure. The garage existed before she owed but as a poster says she now owns it. I'm lost.

You first need to establish if the covenant was/is deemed enforceable then what action was taken to limit your dm liability if so ie. Indemnity policy. If you have copies of the conveyancing paperwork from her purchase it is probably mentioned there. Otherwise download a copy of deeds from land registry? I suspect they are trying it on.

OP, your mum does not have to pay anything to them within the 14 days. Nor does she have to demolish the garage.

Before they would have a claim against their mum, they would have to show how they have been effected and also that they are legally entitled to enforce the covenant. I could send you a letter telling you owe me £5k because you keep your bins at your front door which breaches a covenant. Doesn’t mean I’m legally entitled to anything. It does sound like they’re chancing their arm (I’d expect to be sent some actual evidence and have some sort of dialogue before getting to the “...so you owe me £XXX” conversation but that maybe just me!).

One of the PP linked a good article that gives the basics of how covenants operate and who can enforce them. The person asking for the money has to have an interest in the neighbouring land and show they have somehow suffered because of the garage. There are legal criteria that they would have to prove they meet if they were to take things as far as court.

From the figures you’ve mentioned and the tone of the letter (ie the 14 day limit) it sounds like they’re trying it on and hoping to scare your mum into paying them. They maybe aren’t even hoping to get the full amount but are hoping she’ll contact them to say she can’t afford £4,500 to which they will reply “Well how much can you afford?”. Sounds like they’re relying on people’s fear of all things legal and “official” to making some easy money.

You could maybe suggest contacting them to ask on what basis they think they have a claim. Don’t get into a conversation about paying or anything else, but ask them to show you why they think they deserve this money.

Tell your mum not to do anything about it for now (no ointment in saying not to worry as she will!) and not to think she has to pay the £4,500. It’s on them to prove they have a claim.

If I report to the SRA, I worry it will get their backs up. They are giving her 14 days to pay the sum, demolish the breach or go to court and pay their fees too. So the costs will escalate

Collaborate has pointed out that their claim has no legal basis. So their costs will escalate if they take it to court, not your mother's. The courts will not uphold a scam.

And I certainly wouldn't worry about getting their backs up. They need to be stopped.

It's just a chancer OP. They've done some digging around (probably because they're skint) to see if they can make a quick buck knowing most people don't know the law well. A solicitor will send a letter for a client for any reason for a fee.

Just ignore it, honestly. The chances of the person taking it to small claims is slim to none as they know they won't win. Your mum probably isn't the only person that got one. I work in this field and trust me when I say ignore, do not even call the solicitor. Just totally ignore the letter

If a garage is built in breach of covenant the person responsible for enforcing the covenant needs to act swiftly to avoid losing the opportunity of enforcing it. Many covenants are unenforceable simply because they have been ignored with impunity for years.

I'll PM you.

OP, prh47bridge is a solicitor who gives much very valuable advice.
See what he and Collaborate have to say.

"If a garage is built in breach of covenant the person responsible for enforcing the covenant needs to act swiftly to avoid losing the opportunity of enforcing it" well, you have no end of evidence that this garage was built years and years ago.

Reporting the letter sounds a good move to me!

You may find some useful pointers in this thread
forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/long-leasehold-questions/1084819-breach-of-the-lease-due-to-alterations-carried-out-before-1992-when-i-became-owner

@Carrotcakeyum The thread you have linked to involves the breach of a term of a lease. That is different to OP's case.

The ability of the individual seeking to enforce the covenant will depend on whether they hold the benefit of the covenant and that it touches and concerns their land (being the land with the benefit of the covenant).

@Collaborate thanks for pointing that out. It certainly is a complex area!

Hi folks,

Well, here's an update....

My mum went to the estate agents mentioning the letter, they sent her to the solicitors across the road, saying lots if people have received letter and they were dealing with them.

She goes in and the receptionist took a scan of the letter and her ID to send to the partner of the firm who is dealing with them all and sent her on her way. She was given no fees, no instruction, no advice. She was content until I asked her questions. I told her to go for the half hour, dont jump into bed with them and yet here we are. She is "lead" rather easily.

I called the solicitors myself to ask re fees etc, still no idea.

I did manage to speak to someone who was at the meeting (solicitors held one for residents) He explained that the letter was poorly worded and lacked detail regarding the exact nature of the covenant ie exactly which piece of land does the covenant refer to. He suggested that he writes back to the solicitors on residents behalf, requesting that they provide exact details as to which piece of land they are referring to and how the ancient covenant benefits their client, bearing in mind the age of the covenant and how the neighbourhood has changed.

He went onto say that if it comes to anything, they can share the cost of a barrister.

I'm on the fence about all of this. I still feel she should ignore the letter altogether now and just report to cheeky swines that sent the letter. (Miah solicitors - apparently known to do this type of scaremongering)

The receptionist thinks about 900 people will have recieved the letter, most elderly (given the area)

Well I don’t think the solicitors over the road cannot charge your Mum unless your Mum has signed the form instructing them .

The famous MN ‘Free half hour’ isn’t something all, or even most, solicitors do, it isn’t a standard ‘right’ and if solicitors do do it it is to assess whether there is any point/ hope of success in going forward, or for the client to decide if they are the solicitor they wish to instruct.

I think that, especially given that you now know they are terrorising everyone with a badly written letter, you should go ahead and report them as suggested.

Or write to the Guardian or Observer consumer columns. This nasty, greedy little scam would make a good feature.

Andrew Kitchen and Miah Solicitors should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

This is one occasion where you hope the DM turns up...

Visit or call citizens advice bureau

Hi Blouseandskirt thanks for all your advice and on doing some research on Yorkshire land co for me. I passed it on all the advise here to the Good Neighbours in the hope to quell fear amongst the recipients.

The Guardian ‘Money’ pages love a ‘greedy developer ‘ story. They investigated and covered the scandal of developers holding leases on the land (or something) of new build houses they sold without a guarantee against rises in charges.

Disclaimer: I have no professional knowledge in any of this stuff and am not a solicitor like others on this thread.

I honestly think you should report the law firm, and include the information that the Estate Agents said they have sent loads of these letters.

Might also be worth checking your DM’s home insurance policy to see if it covers legal fees - just in case it gets to the point where she does need to spend anything?

Don't pay! This is nothing but a scam. It may be the same company that built the houses and still owns the covenant, but that does not mean they can claim anything from you. Any breach over 20 years old is unenforceable. Even when people can claim for things like this, they can only recover the reduction in value of their own land (if they still own any) as a direct result of your breach. They are taking a chance to see if people will just pay without asking any questions. Don't fall for it. Go back to the solicitor that acted for you when you bought your house. If the garage was under 20 years old when you bought the property, they may have put an insurance policy in place to cover you for these circumstances, so you can just pass everything to your insurers for them to deal with.

We have covenants on our 1960s houses. However as half the houses have breaches the covenants I was advised by our planning office that the covenants were no longer enforceable as so many people had breaches them many years ago and not been pursued. I know this post is a few months old, hope you got on OK.