Interim child arrangements order not working

[HairyPorter]

Sorry to repost here, I didnt get any response in the Dicorce section

My STBXH and I are in the process sorting out child arrangements. He has had anger issues throughout the issues (no DV), and there were often instances where he lost his temper with the children and near misses when I thought they may get hurt.

He moved out in March and following that, my daughter (6) made a disclosure of physical abuse which occurred when I was not around. I reported this to SS but they felt it was not significant (no implement used and no bruising) so closed the case and recommended child arrangements order.

I insisted on supervised contact while awaiting FHDRA.

At FHDRA, as supervised contact was going well, and as he convinced CAFCASS that he had changed, they gave him unsupervised contact (1.5 days a week, which is the same as before). We are waiting for CAFCASS to do section 7 report before going back to court.

My daughter had 2 unsupervised contact sessions, and has since refused to go. She has missed 2 sessions now. Both times I took her to the meeting point, and when she told STBXH that she wasn't going, he chose to leave without her. She says she doesn't want to go as he says mean things to her (calls her mean/rude/unkind/horrible etc).

The court order says 'the mother must make sure the children spend time with the father'... and this is impossible for me as I can't physically restrain her and make her go.

Do I need to apply to court to vary the interim order?? It seems a bit silly to go back to court now, as really the next step has to be CAFCASS section 7, and going back to court without that done seems pointless. At the same time I dont want to be in contempt of court.

Any advice please?

Was it actually a court order? Are you in the Family Proceedings Court? If you've just had a FHDRH in front of a Legal Advisor they have no power to make actual orders so often what you see is a recording of an agreement which in itself is unenforceable, though going back on what you agreed without good reason may count against you.

It's impossible to say based on what is in your post whether or not the court will think you're doing the right thing.

Thanks collaborate. It was a interim court order as we had our FHDRA with a deputy district judge. What am I supposed to do if she keeps refusing to go?? Short of her being restrained, there is no way she will go! I'm happy to keep turning up to the handover point with her, but if contact doesn't occur, I'm still in breach of the order aren't I?

What would you do if she was refusing school? Or a trip to the GP when needed? Vaccinations? Or the dentist?

Do you mean you think she shouldn’t have to go on account of the disclosures she’s made?

miss malice - bit different isnt it. how to damage trust with your kids - make them see a person they are afraid of?
with any relationship, its built on trust.

would you make your kids hang out with the school bully?

Anyone working with children of divorced parents knows it’s far more complex than that.

“They don’t want to go and I can’t make them” is becoming less and less accepted as a reason for contact not happening.

My daughter is being referred to CAMHS because of how distressed she is over her contact with her dad. I don't think forcing her is going to be the right thing to do!

The threshold for CAMHS involvement is distressingly high and referrals for quite serious mental health issues are regularly rejected.

A six year old will not be deemed old enough to understand the full consequences of rejecting a relationship with a parent. Courts are required to explore every avenue to establish contact before ordering no contact.

How has the judge been with you so far? Normally orders say you must “make the child available” not that you must make sure the child spends time with her father.

The problem is that she has some level of understanding of what is happening and will want to please you, her relationship with her dad is very strained and she is not wanting to spend time there - at 6 it could be many reasons including it being in her head rather than him saying anything remember. An independent person appointed to look into her best interests is key, it's not about what each of the adults want, and for most kids this means contact with the absent parent

I'm not seeking to stop contact. I completely understand that its important for kids to have contact with both parents (provided its safe), and I do not believe the kids are at risk of physical abuse (at present).

My son (8 yo) goes happily and I am genuinely happy to see this. I would be genuinely happy to see her go and wish she had a good relationship with him. We probably wouldn't be getting divorced if there weren't so many issues with how he behaves towards the kids!

I'm just concerned that the current arrangements are affecting my daughter so badly, and I'm not able to comply with the order short of seriously traumatizing her. I honestly think forcing the issue will actually damage stbxh's relationship with her and she needs a softly softly approach (maybe joint therapy / more supervised contact etc). (She has a therapist, and her therapist agrees this is the right approach for her btw)

I dont know what the answer is (from a legal pov), apart from applying back to court to vary the order. It seems silly to go back to court at this stage as it's only just gone to unsupervised contact, and it's only an interim order... we have only had the FHDRA and next hearing will be around October.

I've tried to communicate with stbxh to come up with a plan for managing her contact refusal, but I'm not getting very far.

One part of the order says 'make available ' and the other part says 'must make sure they spend time with'. So its impossible for me to comply with it at present without there being more work looking in why she is refusing contact

Does her father have contact with the therapist? Have you suggested family therapy?