Should I be worried?

[newmummybear2019]

Can anyone help?

Received this e-mail which was from person who owes me money to solicitor:

'could you contact your client (me) and ask him to stop harassing my family members on fb and messenger otherwise I will be taking legal action against him and a counter claim will be put forward for the violent threats and distress he is causing for me and my children and after plastering my home address and childrens school over the interment I am now concerned for my children's safety I have copies of all the messages and things your client has been posting and copies of all messaged your client has been sending and replies he has received and legal action will be taken against him'

Firstly, all I did was send 'Hi, have you heard from 'xxx' he owes me money and has deleted my number so can't get in touch, do you know where he is as he's done a runner' to about 15 people with the same surname, only one person replied saying he didn't want to get involved and I said 'OK no problem, thanks' the rest didn't even read my messages (it's still a white unfilled tick in my FB inbox)

Secondly, I didn't mention her address or her childs school anywhere, that is complete and utter lies and I also have a copy of all messages sent which can prove this.

I've got nothing to be worried about right? I've done absolutely nothing wrong and if these people go to the police and say i've been harassing them then it's just wasting police time and they won't be happy right?

What about the fact she is blatantly lying, can I do anything about that? Sue him for slander or defamation or whatever it's called? Can use this as proof that he is a lying piece of shit when i'm trying to get my money back so will it work in my favour?

Sorry about the bunch of questions any help much appreciated thanks.

Stop saying snowflakes because it's very irritating. You could ask about their whereabouts without airing your dirty linen in public. They didn't need to know about owing money or that you think they have done a runner. What was the wording on the text you sent?

I think the people you contacted have a right to be pissed off tbh, I'd be less than impressed being dragged into something that didn't involve me and I'd say so too.

You have every right to chase this person for the money they owe, but if you think you've got the right to contact their relatives then you're mistaken.

So you came on here asking if you were harassing someone, discovered you were and are now being rude to the poster who pointed that out?

Its not being a snowflake, it's the law!

Do you understand how expensive libel is to prove? Do you understand it's a civil matter generally and unless you have deep pockets and the person you're going against has equally deep pockets the only winners are your respective legal teams?

What she has done or not done is irrelevant. Your OP states you messaged a variety of people telling them she owed you money. That is illegal. It is not about sides.

explain to me please how sending 1 message asking if you've heard from/know where a certain person is (in a nice way, I said please and thank you) is harassment?

Someone posted you the relevant information on what is legally considered harassment and bolded the specific ways in which your message could be a problem.

Might feel unfair, they might be telling lies, you might not care if you got a message like that - but would you care if your friends and family got messages about you owing money?

Please stop saying snowflakes. It's irrelevant and annoying.

You can't message these people. Really.

She is a known scammer/fraudster who has scammed many people from a different area (found this out on FB but too late) and according to her brother (who posted on this FB page) she has also scammed family members as well so that's why I tried to get in touch with some of her family to see if any of them would message back saying they have been scammed to and would like to help. I genuinely didn't know that telling other people she owes me money is illegal. That is ridiculous imo. In that case then my friend has broken the law because he told someone I owe him £10 for a fantasy football thing and I was a couple days late paying it. I PM'ed you Annie thanks

• but would you care if your friends and family got messages about you owing money?

No of course I wouldn't.. why would I?

It's harassment by proxy. You've effectively made unwelcome contact fifteen times.

As suggested, if you want to enforce the debt then go to small claims. However keep in mind that a judgment does not necessarily mean you'll ever receive a penny.

@newmummybear2019 - replied (just in case Mumsnet keeps you in the dark on new messages like it does me!)

I genuinely don't understand what is wrong with messaging them asking if they know where she is/heard from her.. if one of my friends/family had scammed someone and done a runner with the money and I received a message from the unfortunate person asking if I know where they are i'd be happy to help.

It doesn't matter what any of us think, really. The law is clear that this can be considered harassment and its unlikely you'd be able to find evidence of this being a reasonable course of action if you went to court. It might seem fine to you, but it's not generally acceptable.

She can start to take legal action against you if she feels you are harassing her, and she could attempt to claim libel if you are suggesting to people that she has done a runner and owes you money.

Stop messaging people, leave it be. She's unlikely to take legal action, it's expensive and inconvenient, and her chances of winning would be at best 50/50. You need to enforce your debt in a reasonable manner, using a solicitor or a debt collector, registering a charge against property etc, using legal means. Sadly, if you can't afford to do that; your means of recovering the debt are slim - is the debt substantial enough that you could pay someone to recover it and then pay them once they've got it? That's usually more expensive but could work here.

I genuinely don't understand what is wrong with messaging them asking if they know where she is/heard from her.. if one of my friends/family had scammed someone and done a runner with the money and I received a message from the unfortunate person asking if I know where they are i'd be happy to help.

It doesn't matter what any of us think, really. The law is clear that this can be considered harassment and its unlikely you'd be able to find evidence of this being a reasonable course of action if you went to court. It might seem fine to you, but it's not generally acceptable.

She can start to take legal action against you if she feels you are harassing her, and she could attempt to claim libel if you are suggesting to people that she has done a runner and owes you money.

Stop messaging people, leave it be. She's unlikely to take legal action, it's expensive and inconvenient, and her chances of winning would be at best 50/50. You need to enforce your debt in a reasonable manner, using a solicitor or a debt collector, registering a charge against property etc, using legal means. Sadly, if you can't afford to do that; your means of recovering the debt are slim - is the debt substantial enough that you could pay someone to recover it and then pay them once they've got it? That's usually more expensive but could work here.

No of course I wouldn't.. why would I?

I don't have any control over, nor do I have responsibility for the actions of my relatives. Their business isn't my business and I have enough shit to deal with in my life without having to be contacted about something that has fuck all to do with me.

You just can't behave the way you have. It's not on.

You Don't Understand What's Wrong With Calling Other People?
My younger daughter got into financial difficulties in her 20's and left a string of debts (mostly credit cards and medical bills). Ten years later these debts have been passed to collection agencies who call me because they cannot locate her. I have been threatened with arrest and encouraged to mortgage my house to pay her bills. I receive at least ten calls per week.
It makes me furious and I would report you too!

All I did was message a few people asking if they knew where she was/heard from her.. she is known for scamming her own family as well so was maybe thinking I could find someone else who has been scammed by her and try and sort something out.. I was panicking at the time of messaging them as she has just blocked my number and I know she had done a runner as my friend went round to her house and it's completely empty she no longer lives there so I was panicking thinking I have no means of getting in touch with her so that's why I decided to try and find out any information through facebook.. I genuinely don't see anything wrong with this, but I suppose that is just me. I'm known for being different and a bit 'strange' you could say.

I haven't messaged any of them since, this was about 10 days ago, 1 message and only received 1 reply from someone who said pretty kindly they didn't want to be involved and I hope I find her and I said 'no problem, thank you'

I would suggest you delete the as yet unread messages asap. Clearly one if the recipients has tipped her off. Are you sure you have not posted more elsewhere, such as on the scammers page? Why not club together with other victims to pursue it and share the cost?

Hang on. It sounds like the solicitors letter has been sent out in a way that looks a company has been hired to officially sort the debts when it's really a mate pretending to be sending it on officially and he's then pass on info given to him to you???? Can he legally do that??

That sounds like a massive abuse of his power the role in the firm gives him at worse and vey unprofessional of him at best.

There are ways if having a loan repeated and I'd be genuinely surprised if a proper law firm allows their staff to send letters out to trick personal info to be given to mate.

I've been in debt in my time and even bailiffs aren't allowed to knock on neighbours and family doors or contact them and tell them about my debts, legit bailiffs also can't send fake letters out to trick people who owe their mates money either. I'd be surprised if your solicitor mate hasn't broken some laws himself which won't work in your favour as having pretend to be acting as an official solicitor and the containing 15 people and divulging info you shouldn't be actually does sound a bit harassmentish.

Also it's nothing to do with being a "snowflake" either.

Recovered

Autocorrect is annoying.

Huh? The solicitor isn't a mate I found him online e-mailed him and explained situation and asked nicely if he could e-mail her to find out her address and her solicitors contact details as she wouldn't tell me herself and I need her address to send a letter before action, he agreed just because he's a nice guy I guess I was surprised myself. I will probably end up using him as a solicitor if I do actually need one in the end

I'm sorry but not one person will ever convince me that messaging someone asking if they know where xxx is/heard from them and explaining why is harassment. I mean if everyone else agrees it is then that's fair enough but in my eyes it's ridiculous but like I said i'm considered 'different' and 'a bit strange' so there you go

How did you get an email address?

You mean hers? I completely forgot I had her e-mail saved in my old e-mail book address thing from ages ago, found it by digging through it

So you never needed to contact the other people? Presumably she now knows this.

OP I am a lawyer.

To be in breach of the Protection from Harassment Act you need to engage in a course of conduct which usually means more than one action. You sent just one message I think? Is there anything else you’ve done to pursue the money which might be an action they would complain about?

Harassment under the Equality Act wouldn’t apply and to be fair I don’t think anyone is suggesting it would.

I’m assuming you didn’t plaster their address on the internet as suggested?

I don’t think you should have sent the messages but I don’t think you broke the law.

Yes just the one message, except for 1 person who replied saying they didn't want to be involved so I sent back 'No problem, thanks'

And no I didn't plaster their address or their kids school anywhere, also didn't make any 'violent threats' either so she's making it up.

I'll give you a PM @NewarkShark, thanks.

One message is not deemed harrassment under the protection from harrassment act. Neither is making enquiries to people who may know the whereabouts of the person you are seeking. However were you to continue messaging the people to whom you have already messaged, it may be unwise now, having been asked not to do it. After sending a letter before action setting out your claim and warning of the impending legal action, you can issue a money claim online which is pretty straightforward. However it is one thing issuing a claim and obtaining judgement, but it's another actually getting the money out of them. It helps if you have their bank account details for a third party debt order, employer details for an attachment to earnings, or knowledge that they have assets that can be seized by bailiffs acting on your behalf. Good luck.