Shared garden issue

[JulieJay833]

So i have live in the upstairs flat of a house conversion thats separated into 2 flats. I have always shared the gardens with the neighbour downstairs. Unfortunately he recently passed away and a new tenant has almost moved in.
Anyway yesterday evening i went in the garden to hang up my washing (I have access via the back gate which is near my front door using a key) and the new tenant came out with her mother asking me why i was in the garden. I explained to them we share the garden and I always use it. This is when they told me: We were told by peabody (formally family mosaic housing association) that the upstairs flat has no access to the garden and its all ours so I explained that in my tenancy agreement it states all gardens of the property are communal and that I lived here for years with no issues sharing the garden and that I do not have an access key ti the garden for nothing. At that moment the tenant said WOW and stormed off whilst her mother said there must be some kind of mistake.
The issue I have is that I lost my tenancy agreement some time ago and was wondering if its possible to get a copy from the housing association?

Cant sleep worrying about this as my kids love the garden and also being made to feel like a trespasser in my own garden is really unsettling.

Yes, you should be able to get a copy of the tenancy agreement.
There should also be a tenants association for your area who may be able to help.
Frankly I think they're just trying it on, hence the unpleasantness. Get the key copied and keep the copy with a friend - you wouldn't want to lose that. Hang out your washing in the meantime.

Yes, you can request another copy of your tenancy agreement.
But I agree with pp, your neighbours response sounds like they are trying it on.
Just carry on as normal, be friendly but firm.

I would request a copy of your tenancy agreement.

It would be shit for the neighbours if they have been told that the garden is for their sole use when it is not. I would cut them some slack until I had my tenancy agreement. I would show them a copy and ask to see theirs too.

Is the garden big enough to be separated into two?

I live in the downstairs flat in a similar set up and it is arranged so all of my garden is close to my windows so I don't have neighbours really close to them and upstairs has the side garden.

This works because there is large front, back and side portions, in other smaller gardens the upstairs neighbours have a section further away from the house.

Do you do any maintenance in the garden?

The garden is a weird shape and quite small so not really any chance of a split and yes ive helped maintain it over the years and used to discuss with the old neighbour about improvements we would do to it

Thanks for your replies. Im off to the housing association office shortly to request a copy of the tenancy

Just incase anyone looks back i contacted the housing association and they looked into it and saw on the property info all gardens of the property are communal. Now just waiting to speak to the neighbourhood manager so she can let the neighbours know this information. Thanks again

Interested in how neighbor responds.

I went to the garden as i heard people talking and it was her family looking around. I explained the altercation from the previous evening, and told them the information i had received from the housing office. They said they would ring and check for themselves. About an hour later i heard the new tenant shout loudly from the garden ‘MY GARDEN, DUN KNOW’ so naturally i got back on the phone to check again and they told me the same thing. Communal garden. Fast forward another hour and the neighbourhood manager calls me to tell me yes the garden is shared and if its on her lease that the garden is hers, its a mistake and it will be changed to shared garden for her lease also. As I have been here for years under the shared garden contract there isnt much she can do about it apart from leave the property if shes unhappy about it. I dont like the bragging/what i deem to be almost threatening behaviour from the shouting she was doing in the garden. This is totally not my fault. This lies with the person who drew up the tenancy agreement if hers is different to mine.

Just use your garden as you see fit. Don't be scared to go out there and change your behaviour. That's what she's wanting.

The issue is she's been misold, and may not have taken the flat if she'd known it was a shared garden. But it's not your problem. It's hers. Don't let her make it yours.

I doubt her tenancy agreement is different, she sounds to thick to have bothered reading it. She has probably told her mother all about her nice new garden and is now embarrassed that she got it so wrong.

Had she had an incorrect tenancy agreement she would have shown it to you.

Stand your ground op. And ffs don't agree to take turns using it....

the neighbourhood manager calls me to tell me yes the garden is shared and if its on her lease that the garden is hers, its a mistake and it will be changed to shared garden for her lease also. As I have been here for years under the shared garden contract there isnt much she can do about it apart from leave the property if shes unhappy about it. I dont like the bragging/what i deem to be almost threatening behaviour from the shouting she was doing in the garden.

Let the neighbourhood manager know about the intimidating behaviour. Your new neighbour could well be in breach of tenancy.
Don't worry about what her tenancy says/doesn't say. Not your problem. The HA has confirmed it's a shared garden. Let them deal with the bad behaviour from the neighbour.

Thanks all for your support and views on the situation. Im now just waiting to hear back from the neighbourhood manager to find out if the other tenant has been informed. Although its cr*p that she was told she has the whole garden, my sympathy went out the window when the immature shouting happened. I have a feeling whenever i go to the garden from now on theyll be some tactics to get me out but i shall not be moved lol
Thanks again

I sincerely doubt that her tenancy agreement is different to yours!

and the neighbourhood manager calls me to tell me yes the garden is shared and if its on her lease that the garden is hers, its a mistake and it will be changed to shared garden for her lease also

not sure it will be that simple - you can't just change a contract that's been signed (and presumably overseen by a solicitor ?). If her lease really does say that (which I make no comment on) then they might find themselves having to pay them a lot of money in recompense. Especially if it turns out they only accepted the lease because of exclusive access to the garden.

By the same token, how would the OP feel if the HA suddenly rocked up and said oops, silly us. We accidentally said you can share the garden but it turns out we're wrong and now you can't. So sorry. Lessons will be learned etc etc - what are we like ? ?

If her tenancy agreement is different then there’s an issue either way. She would have recourse if she’s been told the garden is only for her use. Similarly, you would have recourse if you were suddenly told you cannot share the garden. I’m not sure what the answer is if the she was told the garden is hers, probably just that she can leave or ask for compensation / reduction in rent

But, as PP said, it is likely that her tenancy says the same as yours: that the garden is shared

Does anyone know what happened with the other recent thread about a shared garden? In that case I think upstairs we’re entitled to part of the garden and downstairs were entitled to the other part but they had always agreed to share until downstairs took issue and seemed to not want upstairs tenant to use the garden...

If her tenancy agreement is different then there’s an issue either way. She would have recourse if she’s been told the garden is only for her use. Similarly, you would have recourse if you were suddenly told you cannot share the garden. I’m not sure what the answer is if the she was told the garden is hers, probably just that she can leave or ask for compensation / reduction in rent

The rise in accidental/amateur landlords, matched by a rise in novice/inexperienced tenants has led to a flood of badly written leases popping up all over the place. Clauses which are either archaic, contradictory or plain wrong are being signed into leases and causing (as the OP is finding out) lots of legal work for the solicitors that fucked it up in the first place. And generally the law doesn't really care too much (although a rise in a rental electorate might see some shift in that).

Gardens and open spaces are especially problematic, as tenants with children are becoming far more common.

Just a note to the OP that they might want to check their household insurance for legal cover. You never know.

Just to say again i have been told by 3 separate persons (one being the neighbourhood officer who oversee’s quite a few properties around this area) that it being her garden only is wrong. And they will not be removing my access from the garden. So as far as I an concerned its sorted for me and ive been in and out the garden. Not sure if she has been there though so will see what happens when she is in and i go to the garden

In London youre lucky to get any garden at all and unless you have some serious issues where you need certain things to make life comfortable in your house, Im pretty sure you cant turn down properties when theres 16k people on the social housing waiting list