CAFCASS recommend indirect contact - DVPP

[MissBootyBass]

Hi, first post on MN!

I'm going through the court system with my abusive ex partner. CAFCASS have decided that due to the severity of his behaviour that he is only to have indirect contact with his son whilst proceedings are happening. My solicitor thinks I have a very strong case to insist he goes on a domestic violence perpetrator programme. Only indirect contact until that is completed.

Has anyone got any knowledge of these programmes? Are they easy to get on/complete?

I know he doesn't have the capacity to change but if there's any hope it'll help him to see what he's done and learn from it then I guess that can only be positive.

I'm just not convinced...

Men like that don't change.

Well, that is my concern. That he may charm his way through the course and regain access, then long may the abuse continue...

Whilst undoubtedly completion of such a course does not 100% guarantee that there will be no further incidents, if you look at the various studies you'll see it does have a positive effect.

The Charity Refuge isn't keen on them, and the reason they give is that it doesn't end all forms of abuse in all cases.

You need to combine completion of such a course with positive steps to minimise and make safe the contact you have with your ex-partner.

Thanks Collab.

My ex is a narcissist. He is abusive towards me, his ex, his mum, and his children. I know deep down that he's not suitable for such a course. He will get through it though. He's clever like that.

I can only see it making him angry. It's a means to an end for him and it will likely just piss him off even more.

I'm very scared of him.

I don't know much about these courses but I do know my abusive and narcissistic ex would play along on the course whilst sneering inside. He never listens to anything anyone else says and I can't see how anyone would get through to him.

Glad you have indirect contact for the interim and hope it goes well in court.

Well, I feel exactly the same about my ex. This is a man who has systematically abused everyone he's ever touched. Especially those of us with vaginas! He's a vile woman hater. I don't know why I didn't see it whilst it was right in front of my eyes. But that's easy to say in hindsight.

Theres the freedom program that womens aid run, cafcass have recommended I go on it- they do one for the abused and a separate one for the abuser. There is a book that is written alongside the programme called living with the dominator, which I read and each chapter pinpoints different types of abuser. My ex also has indirect contact due to drinking issues and DV towards me and his current partner. I have to facilitate calls 3x a week until we are back in court.

@MissBootyBass I’m so sorry you’re going through this.

My Narc ex is dragging me to mediation after 4 years of NC - DC is 4 and has zero memory of him, I’m fucking terrified, I very much know how you’re feeling right now.

@Pgjp129 For fuck sake It’s all so awful.

My ex wasn’t violent (once, the police were called, they removed him, and also told me every single other thing he’s ever been arrested for too, I had no idea! And was already pregnant by then but had kicked him out, he was trying to boot my door in to get into the house) but he is manipulative, lies all the time, gaslights, is definitely an alcoholic and likely uses drugs too, financially abused me, is very convincing with the poor kicked puppy routine he gives.

A lot of it was more mental and financial. Then there were God knows how many arrests from 2012 till now. He already lost contact with his older daughter so it's looking the same for us.

Idontgive - hugs and gin to you!

PGJP - you are well within your rights to refuse mediation if you were abused. Physically or not. It's not appropriate for you to attend mediation with an abuser.

my secondhand knowledge of cafcass is that this is what they do when they want NO contact - get it time limited with no change without attending relative courses - parenting, anger management plus the one you mention. I doubt v much if your ex will do any of it - as a narcissit he won't see he is in the wrong so why should he. Its not about access its about what hurts you regardless of the child. I doubt he would even stick to indirect contact ie letters for more than one or two. SO discuss with your representation what the steps should be to get no contact sorted, make sure there is a go back if he messes up the contact - ie talks to your kid about things he shouldn't, slags you off or blames you or as in a friend of mines tells the kid that their pets are going to be dead soon....

CLA told me to attend the assessment mediation meeting if requested, but my emails should be enough. However the mediators have said they aren’t enough and I have to go in, for them to decide if he was “abusive enough” for mediation to be inappropriate, and if they deem it is appropriate and I refuse to go, I will look like I’m being obstructive

The evidence thing has thrown me. How does one prove that he would regularly disappear for days or weeks on end when his wages were paid so he could go on binges? That he never paid any of his share of the bills (rent and C.Tax mainly) and I almost lost my home? That I regularly borrowed money to buy food and gas and electric? That he didn’t pay a penny or buy a single item when I was pregnant? That he stole from my purse regularly? Or from my other DCs purses? That he disappeared whilst I was pregnant for MONTHS? That he would tell his ex we had no money to pick up his DC with her and then tell me that his DC had a party he didn’t want to miss and that’s why DC wasn’t coming that weekend? (That’s the sort of lies - to get out of doing something he couldn’t be arsed to do, he would tell different lies to different people). Regularly stole the password for my social media to read my messages, stalked me on here, wouldn’t let me have phone calls, isolated me from everyone (I ended up with 0 friends)...

It’s taken me so long to rebuild my life.

I mean he’s made zero contact with me in 4 years and now HE wants to talk and I’m FORCED to?! It fucking stinks.

My ex husband raped me & tried to burn the house down with me & my then 6 year old inside, he was a narcissist, gaslighting me, financially abusive, left me in loads of debt, caffcass still recommended unsupervised access, I'm now left with a 15 year old whose mind is totally screwed because his dad has transferred his abuse on to him. If they are prepared to only recommend him indirect access, go to court & hope the judge recommends no access or at least he messes up once & all access ceases.

@Nat6999 I don’t even have words for that. How on Earth do these people think men like him should have access?!

I didn't want to speak to him at court, bloody caffcass officer asked me to go in a room to speak to him, I walked in & exhusband was sat there. Ds has been having problems at school recently, MAST are involved & force me to go to meetings with him. I've finally grown some balls & refused.

@Nat6999 Don’t suppose it’s occurred to them that the Ex is the bloody cause of all this ?! Is your DS still forced to see him? Does he want to?

Hi
Following as I recently had my first hearing at Family Court as my ex is applying for contact after 18m. Court followed CAFCASS recommendations that there be no direct contact (indirect wasn't granted either) under he is half way through the perpetrators course.
Same feeling here, he will just go along with it and say the 'right' things and get through it.
He has already completed 2x anger management courses, both court ordered, they made no difference. He is currently doing a Building Better Relationships course due to the DV with myself, again court ordered.
CAFCASS will be commencing a S7 but I'm so worried that he will worm his way through and have further negative effect on my(our) child.

Don't be worried about having a chat with the mediators to explain why you don't want to mediate. I did this and found that the woman I spoke to understood very quickly why mediation wasn't appropriate (in fact we did previously try it and the mediators back then found him so difficult to deal with that they insisted on there being two mediators in the room with us. And we didn't get anywhere, despite their efforts).

My ex was referred to a parenting course, and he was so arrogant that he refused to go - he refused to accept that there was anything wrong with his parenting. This did not go down well in court.

I totally see it's harder if you're dealing with a clever ex who pretends to comply. I've been lucky to deal with someone who considers his own intransigence to be an admirable show of strength. He digs himself in deeper every time.

Cafcass have recommended something similar for a paternal grandparent. A course about boundaries and personal space. I too know now that she is possibly suffering from narcissistic personality disorder but didn't come outright and say that, just gave the facts and they obviously spoke to her too 🙈these people are dangerous!

Hi, I know you wrote your post a while ago but I was wondering if you could tell me the outcome of your court hearing. My son is 4 and hasnt seen his father for 2 years. He was extr9violent. He has been placed on the domestic violence course and has not been given any interim contact. X