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Some probate/estate advice please.

10 replies

PoppadomPeach · 16/06/2019 15:57

My DFather has always been the black sheep of the family with his brother being treated as the 'Golden Child'

For many years there has been a bone of contention regarding the estate left behind when my DFs paternal grandmother passed away.
She had no surviving partner and left behind a 2 bed property with no mortgage.
My DFs parents handed the property straight to my DFs brother, with the jewellery, cash and other items of value going straight to my DFs dad and no more being said about it.

My DF has had a really rough time of it. Losing properties, work opportunities, businesses and even having to go bankrupt over the years due to supporting my DMs(god rest her soul) through her addiction. He has continued on regardless.

His brother on the other hand has lived mortgage/rent free for over twenty years, has basic bills, childcare on tap (house is round the corner from the parents) and decent schools/opportunities for his daughter.
He hasn't had to do a hard days work in his life - hasn't had to fight for anything.

As you can imagine, my DF is fucked off - but was of the opinion 'that's the way the cookie crumbles' until we found out what we did.

The estate of DFs grandmother never went to probate. We found out completely by accident.
I have absolutely no idea what happened (over 20 years ago now) but there was no will. The house is actually still under her name on the deeds, it should've been shared out equally along with the other assets but it was kept between my DFs brother and parents - he did not see a penny.
My DF is beyond furious.
That he has struggled all these years when really he could've had a helping hand too, that his brother has had it so easy on what was effectively my dad's money too, that it all happened so slyly and illegally so that he couldn't get a look in.

We have no idea what to do next. Anyone with a legal mind who can advise? What's gone on is so beyond dodgy and my DF is utterly enraged at a) his GMs name being besmirched and b) being kept in the dark as he had.

OP posts:
PoppadomPeach · 16/06/2019 16:06

Would just like to add also;

It's come to our attention that DFs brother and his fiancée are also playing the benefit system to their advantage too.
His fiancée is claiming as a single parent - saying that she lives with her mum.
This for two reasons; one being benefits and two being to get her daughter into a better school.

Like their life hasn't been easy enough!!!

OP posts:
bionicnemonic · 16/06/2019 16:25

I'm not versed in legal matters, but if someone dies without a Will (in this case the grandmother) then I think if there is no partner, the estate is shared among the children. So I imagine it would have gone to your DH's parent and any of his siblings. If they then chose to gift something to your DH's brother then I would imagine that is to one side of the inheritance. But that aside yes, it should have gone to probate as there may have been taxes to pay.
Check the rules here www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will

prh47bridge · 16/06/2019 21:48

If she was intestate her estate should have been shared between her children. If your DF's father was an only child he would have inherited everything. What he did with it thereafter was entirely up to him. If he wanted to give some or all of it to your DF's brother he could. Your DF was not entitled to anything. I'm afraid this is not dodgy at all as far as the law is concerned. I understand how you feel about it but, provided any IHT due has been paid, no laws have been broken. However, your DF's father really should apply for letters of administration so that ownership of the property can be transferred.

PoppadomPeach · 16/06/2019 23:05

Nothing was paid because they kept their mouths shut.
The property was quietly handed over to my DFs brother with nothing else mentioned.

It has become a lot clearer since GM returned home that GF was actually nothing to do with it.
It's only when DF was talking to his father about a deposit for his new house that this all came out.
GF said that he would love to help but can't until 'brother' moves out of the property - then he'll sell and split it.
The conversation was pootling along in that way until DFs brother visited, heard what they were talking about and came in ashen faced saying 'You're going to sell the house?!' GF replied 'Well it is mine and you have lived there rent free for 20+ years - it's only fair to level the playing field'
DF was absolutely apoplectic at this time thinking GF was involved the whole time.

An argument kicked off, GM came home and had the exact same ashen look when she realised what was being said. GF demanded to know what the fuck was going on. It then transpired that GF had left the paperwork/legalities to her since he was grieving for his DM - GM realised that the property would've been taxed and never mentioned the asset.
She basically claimed that GFs mother has nothing when she died and that was that.

I have looked online and the property isn't on the Land Registry. It's slipped through the net totally.
GF is fuming, DF is fuming. GM has gone to stay with 'brother.'
We've been looking online for some advice but I've only found American sites. It's such a mess.

OP posts:
PurpleWithRed · 16/06/2019 23:13

I’d say Gf needs to see a solicitor ASAP, I would imagine he needs to take along a list of his mothers assets at her death and her death certificate. (Have I got it right - gf was the only child of the deceased person, who died without a will?). It was his inheritance and his responsibility to ensure the legalities were properly carried out, even if he left it all to be done by his wife.

ChicCroissant · 16/06/2019 23:26

If it is an old property that hasn't changed ownership then no, it won't be on the Land Registry system to look up online (and may not be there at all, depending on the age of it). How do you know that the deeds are still in the original name?

The GM and GF thing is a bit confusing but it seems unlikely that your father's mother could have dealt entirely with the estate, as it would have needed the signature of the beneficiary on forms. So he'd have known what was going on. A lot of this simply doesn't ring true at all tbh. It seems very unlikely to be the whole story.

notapizzaeater · 16/06/2019 23:31

Your Df dad could do what he liked with the house tbh, that said probate should have been done.

PoppadomPeach · 17/06/2019 00:24

He'll be speaking to a solicitor tomorrow @PurpleWithRed

Yes. Only child, no will.

@ChicCroissant To be completely honest if wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't the whole story - but, let's face it, no one is going to tell the full truth now. It's been ongoing for so long.
We know because nothing was ever put in place to move the property over - GF confirmed that to us. But again, he could be lying.
He seemed so angry/shocked with the situation though. It's all a huge mess.

GF can of course do whatever he wants with the property. There's no question about that.
Difference is that now he wants to help DF, but can't because he cannot sell the property since brother is living there.
That's what we're trying to work out.

If what GF says is true, then he didn't gift the property to brother. So has he got any legal right now?
Something isn't right but seeing GF and DF in such a state has pushed me to ask.

Thank you for your answers so far (and sorry if it's confusing. So many people!)

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junebirthdaygirl · 17/06/2019 04:06

Remember your dds life would not have changed too much on inheriting half of a two bed property. Sounds like you are blaming his lack of progress in life on this. Most people manage fine by themselves.
It was up to your gf what he did with the property and he choose to give it to his other son. I presume he will then leave his own house to your dad but obviously not for years.
I wouldn't be blaming all his lifestyle problems on that one decision.

PoppadomPeach · 17/06/2019 11:21

@junebirthdaygirl I'm not blaming his problems on that in the slightest.
DF had a god awful life which could've been made slightly easier - the problems would've gone no where.

I feel sorry for him with regards to the disparity because( due to my mothers illness) he has to give up a lot of work to care for me when I was small - losing houses in the process.
Most people manage just fine when not everything is conspiring against them.
He had a small child, an alcoholic wife, bills coming out of every pore and a mortgage/rent to try and pay. His father could have helped him, wanted to in fact, but didn't think he could.

GF was very 'in the dark' as far as he's told us.

OP posts:
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