What happens in this situation with bil and fil?

[crosser62]

Just curious as I know nothing about legal stuff.

Fil owns his house outright.
It’s worth I’m told about £100k.

Bil lives with fil, has done lifelong and now in his 40’s so it’s his home.
Fil has done a Will with a solicitor.
If he does, the house goes to dh & bil.
2 questions:

1. if fil becomes unwell and needs care, either nursing home or care into the home, will the house have to be sold to pay for this? (There are zero savings) What about bil? He will be homeless effectively won’t he?
2. what if he dies? What then happens to dh ‘s share of the house? Does he have to wait until bil then dies to get a share?

Thinking about the future as fil is well presently but does have chronic health issues likely to get worse.

I would think the house would have to be sold to pay for fees. Not sure if BIL can make a Tenant right to live there though

In scenario 2 there would need to be a clause in the will stating that the brother has the right of lifetime residency. If there is no specific clause the house belongs to the estate and needs to be sold and assists distributed - bil can them get own accommodation

I'm curious about this.
Don't have any answers but I wonder if bil could say it's his home and shouldn't be used to fund care for fil

Oops assets

Found this on ageuk

In scenario 1, then as FIL has no other assets he wouldn't have to pay for care at home. If he was assessed as needing residential care, then unless BIL is disabled, then the house would need to be sold to pay for his care.

In the second, then your BIL and DH would have to work together to decide on when the house needed to be sold to pay them both their inheritance

It’s as I thought.
I’m not sure that BIL is aware of accepting of the fact that the house would need to be sold to pay for residential care.
I’m not sure if he has a plan B for this scenario.

1 - yes the house would be sold and he would be homeless or the council would put a charge on it for the care costs and when the house sold theses would be paid off. So he might have a hope of staying there for a while if the council is kind but when your fil dies they would expect the house to be sold.

The regulations only allow a house to be disregarded if the other person is a dependant so a minor child or spouse.

2- in general your dh can force a sale unless fils will says he can stay there for the rest of his life, in which case it can’t be sold.

If your fil is in good health then he could consider signing the house over to himself/bil/dh in equal shares, with his will giving his share to dh and bil equally. He would need to be in a situation where he is not getting or needing currently any help with care that’s provided from the council.

There may be cgt and iht if he doesn’t live for a further 7 years.

If this happened he would still have some equity if he needed care and the council couldn’t force a sale to fund fees however they would place a charge on fils 1/3 share.

Also this wouldn’t stop dh from forcing a sale in future.

I would also add that your bil should have ££ saved towards a place if his own if he has lived with fil for so long so they should be no reason why he couldn’t afford to should the need arise.

My parents had a Tennant in common arrangement on their house. When Dad diet his 50% came to my sister and l. So mum owes 50% and we each own 25%. Of it has to be sold for Mum's care in the future then only her 50% can go towards the costs

Either your BIL would have to get a mortgage and buy you out or the house would have to be sold, if your FIL died at home.

Could your husband talk to his brother about this? It sounds as though your BIL has had an easy time regarding rent etc - why should he inherit the whole house as well?

My dh has spoken to bil about this in the past but only with limited knowledge of the legalities of the situation.
Bil has never paid any rent to fil. Lives there with no financial contributions and works full time earning a decent wage.

He has no savings. He will not take the future seriously. Has made no effort at all to plan for the future.

Dh has not and would not push this with bil, they get on really well.
Fil has no idea about finances. Dh has had to take control over bill paying and accounts.
He knows that there is no spare cash for fil.

If fil requires residential care, the home will need to be sold unless enough income could be made from renting it (neither helps bil) but some councils are more flexible in their definition of who they take into account living there in insisting on a sale - spouses are allowed to stay put and the house is ignored always, adult kids it varies.

When it comes to point 2 your bil and dh will own it 50/50 and unless fil specifically states bil can stay until he dies it's at your dh's discretion so for instance you could say he can stay there for 1-2 years by which time he either needs to get a mortgage and buy your dh out or it will be sold (expect the probate etc to take a year btw).

You may wish to get legal advice to protect bil because in a crisis situation he's the one most affected, it's not that unusual so I'm sure there's a legal way of doing it in case of the first scenario

It's disgraceful that your BIL doesn't pay any rent. A little bit per month would make things much easier for your FIL.

I would be making it very clear that under know circumstances will BIL be moving into your home if FIL house has to be sold.

You can't make BIL look at the future, but you can make it clear to FIL he needs to put a will in place.

Can ask when/if FIL goes into a home or dies will your husband keep on looking after the bills that your BIL runs up. As BIL needs to start paying his way and looking after the house hold costs.

The father probably should put it in the 3 noint names - him and the 2 sons and at the same time sign some kind of agreement with the son who lives in either to charge him rent now which can be used to keep the place up or the rent accrues and is set against his share making the non resident brother's share higher as it were.

How old us the brother?

If 2) arose a obvious solution would be for BIL to buy DH out. £50k would be a tiny mortgage and he’d have an ltv of 50%.