Can a dementia sufferer be deemed liable for accidental damage?

[GLASGOWGIRL82]

A couple of months ago my dad accidentally flooded his downstairs neighbour. A tap had been left running in the bathroom overnight (either by my dad or one of his carers) and a bar of soap had fallen in to the sink blocking the drain.
My dad and his neighbour are both council tenants, my dad doesn't have home insurance but the neighbour does. Last week, the neighbour approached me and said that as the insurance company couldn't pursue my dad they were looking to take me to court as I have Power of Attorney over his affairs. He said I could just settle with him to avoid legal fees and he wanted £200 which is the amount he said it cost him to replace flooring. I agreed to pay it on behalf of my dad as a goodwill gesture but I was clear to him that I thought the housing association were actually liable and not my dad.
There was no overflow in the sink and no space on the sink to put a bar of soap. it's a wetroom bathroom but the water didn't drain away as the floor drain only works when the shower is switched on so the water flowed out to the hallway to the flat below.
I have now received a letter from a company on behalf of the neighbours insurers. They say that in paying the £200 to the neighbour my dad has accepted liability. The £200 is the excess and not the cost to replace the flooring and they want payment within 14 days so over £1,100 to the insurance company and another £800 to the company working on their behalf.
In my opinion the housing are actually liable and I did put that across to the housing officer but they do not accept liability as they state it wouldn't have happened if the tap had been turned off. However, they did replace the bathroom sink for one with an overflow and an indent for soap shortly after the flood as in the housing officer's own words 'it's a design flaw'. No mention was made of the wet room drain so no idea if that's the usual design.
My dad is 90, he has dementia, he's registered blind and is partially deaf. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of this? Can he be held accountable for his actions?

Not super helpful but why doesn't he have insurance?
If you add up the cost of insurance he has saved over the years by not purchasing any, it will probably be much less than the amount he has been requested to pay.

At the time of signing the tenancy I was under a lot of stress with my own ill health and it was just overlooked. He’d never bothered with home insurance when he had capacity so I just didn’t think about it with everything else I was dealing with at the time.

You might put this on legal Op.

Part of having PoA includes ensuring appropriate insurance is in place, or if you think he'd have not chosen to take it out, to ensure injured parties are paid to if he causes damage. Your health does not come into it.

Is he fit to live alone? Does he normally know to turn off the tap?

If he's well enough to live at home alone and use these items, surely he should be fit enough to be held responsible for his errors?

I don't know the legal side of it it is probably best to move this to legal. And get insurance asap.

Afaik it is up to your neighbour to claim on his own insurance. Your Dad can't pay what he doesn't have. Seek legal advice but I doubt your Dad is liable. That's the whole point of insurance. NDN is hoping you will pay so he can avoid making a claim and his premium rising.

Last year there was a massive flood in my neighbours (unoccupied) house which caused extensive damage to mine. Neighbour was in a care home, her DD claimed she visited every 3 weeks to check on the house (although I've lived here for over a decade and had no idea neighbour even had a daughter, nor did I ever see anyone coming and going...). The flood occurred due to a burst pipe which then wasn't checked and carried on leaking until it came through to my house and I called Thames water and the Fire Brigade.

Neighbour and I both have insurance. My insurers told me that leaving a house unoccupied indefinitely and not turning off the water wasn't negligence and therefore we couldn't claim any costs back.

I'm not sure how the insurers of your dad's neighbour could prove he was negligent, as he lacks capacity for is actions.

@UnderTheSeaWithMe The insurer then claims it off the liable party, as they are doing in this case. The OP clearly states that.

The ndn needs to check his insurance, if it doesnt cover water damage caused by someone else why should he end up having increased premiums, it wasnt anything to do with him. I would offer to pay without involving insurance company and the get house insurance sorted out.

The insurance has paid out to the neighbour but they are now looking to recover the money from my dad. The £200 I paid to the neighbour was a goodwill gesture to cover his excess. Another issue is that I highly doubt it would have cost £1,100 for laminate floor for one room. I bought my own flooring from the same local shop and paid the same amount for the full house.

I also still believe that in fitting a new bathroom sink the housing was admitting liability as they stated the lack of overflow was a design flaw. I don’t even know that my dad left the tap on, it could have been his bedtime carer. It was discovered by the carer the following morning by which time it had flooded the flat below

Just go back and say- he has no insurance. He is a vunerable adult in receipt of X and Y benefit with Y and z disability.

He does not have the funds.

I think you need to get proper advice, It sounds quite complicated.

Don't now about the legals here but essentially your dad is living under his own roof. He has responsibilities that you can't paste on the council just because it's their propert y, they've given you what's needed And there's been an incident that's not their fault, there needs to be culpability from your dad's side, the council have zero control, you, your dad and the carers do!!

You dad has dementia - so he's no longer able to act responsibly, so POA is in place, so now it's your responsibility - You have a job to make him and his surroundings safe for him and those around him

Would he be allowed to drive and would it be the fault of the DVLA or another driver if he caused harm? No, YOU NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY IF YOUR DAD CANT'T

That's part of being a grown up and taking responsibility when your dad can't

Do the right thing, perhaps it's time he has better care all day?

Good luck, but stop shirking responsibility

Was it just the flooring or did the water come through the ceiling and down the walls, 1.2k would seem a lot, have you seen the invoice and insurers report. Perhaps the safest thing would be to have your dear dad assessed to make sure he and his neighbours are safe, it could have been a lot worse.

He usually turns off the tap because he’s always been really conscious about checking that everything in the house is switched off, especially at night. The more I think about it the more inclined I am to believe that the carer actually left the tap on. In the past I have walked in just as the carer was leaving to find a tap left on or a hob left switched on at the cooker. It’s easy to blame my dad though because of his dementia.

The water caused damage to the ceiling and walls but the housing covered the cost of that as it’s their responsibility as a landlord to cover structural damage.

As far as I know dementia is not a defence to a claim for damage following negligence, though there is little case law on the subject.
As the holder of a Power of Attorney (you don't say if this is a Personal Welfare LPA or a Property and Financial Affairs LPA) you are not liable for your father's behaviour or the consequences of it, and nor are you obliged to arrange insurance for him. That is a matter for your judgement.
Your payment was a gesture of good faith (though a misguided one) and not any admission of either your father's liability or your willingness to involve yourself personally.
I suggest you take proper legal advice but the outcome could well be the ndn counts his lucky stars he had insurance and has recovered his excess, while his insurers can lump it.

Maybe also time to get a new carer

My understanding of it is (from previous personal experience on a similar matter): It sped up the payout to get the work done. The ndn paid excess (which he got from you by deception) and his insurance company paid out against his own house policy, then IF they can recover the funds, the ndn will get his excess back. Sounds like he lied and tricked you into paying 200 to accept liability. I would seek legal advice.

@LarryTheLurker @UnderTheSeaWithMe

What they both said. Draft yourself a letter based on their advice above and keep yourself a copy.

I reiterate that as POA you are NOT responsible for arranging insurance, nor paying the excess or for remedial works.

Bullying tactics from the neighbour and their insurer are appalling x

The neighbour actually seemed really nice and I felt guilty about him being out of pocket for something that wasn’t his fault. I should have sought legal advice before paying anything but it was meant as a goodwill gesture and I didn’t want to drag it out and keep him waiting for the money. I now feel I was duped and I don’t believe the floor cost over £1000. I also think if the housing are partly to blame for fitting bathroom sinks without overflows. They admitted that was a design flaw and put new sinks in. The downstairs neighbour had actually previously complained to the housing association about the lack of overflow in the sink. The flats were newly built last year and all the neighbors moved in at the same time.

Unfortunately despite your fathers circumstances I don't think it's fair the NDN should be out of pocket even if it's just an increase in premiums?
Fact is correct insurance should have been place and it wasn't

I always thought if it is damage to your own property, it goes against your own insurance. Op's Dad has no money so NDN might need to pursue the council.

I feel somewhat aggrieved the council has to pay up for damage caused by negligence of a tenant who didn’t have insurance. Is this not a condition of tenancy? No wonder council tax is high.

The floor could easily cost £1000! They have to take up the old one, dry it out, take up the skirting boards, out down new underlay and lay the floor. It wasn’t a diy job was it? You are lucky it wasn’t expensive wood.

No one should be without house insurance and I would definitely buy it for you dad from now on.

Underthesea: insurance companies will recover losses (payouts) by going after the person who caused the loss! This is standard insurance procedure. It’s the same for car insurance. The losses will he recovered from the persons insurance who caused the damage. It’s no different for house insurance.