Holiday court order

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Ex and I have had a court order in place for DS who is 2 since January 2019.

The court order states that ex can have 14 additional nights for holiday this year but no more than 4 to be taken consecutively.

This means that ex can use his Saturday / Sunday weekend days plus Friday and Monday to make a four day holiday which only uses 2 holiday days. Essentially, doing it this way, he can have 7 4 day holidays in the year.

He wants to take him every other week from May til August on a four day holiday. I've said I don't think this is suitable. He will be starting a local authority infants nursery school in September and they have been clear that although it's not statutory at this age, they would give the place away to another child if there are absences for anything other than illness. It's highly oversubscribed, and a poor attendance record would also jeopardise his place for reception class.

I offered ex October which he refused, I offered Christmas in the holidays which he also refused. The only way to meet this holiday requirement is by having a four day holiday every other week for three months. Currently, he's never spent more than a night away from me. He's not yet potty trained. His overnight contact with his father won't increase until September this year.

I have now received a rather worrying letter from his solicitor asking me to suggest days for holidays as there is a still a 7 day shortfall from what we have agreed. They are threatening court and making me pay for their costs.

I know I'm obliged to make him available for 14 nights but it's incredibly difficult to accommodate without circumventing the court order and doing something which I don't think is in DS interests.

I'm sure it will go to court if ex doesn't get 14 nights exactly. I really believe I'm not being unduly reasonable and have agreed to some. I can explain that in court but I don't know whether I would look like some kind of restrictive needy parent or whether I would be seen as being practical and doing what is in DS best interest, and accepting that life doesn't always fit in with court orders. I really can't afford to pay his court costs and I don't particularly want to put my son in a position where he's taken away for more nights than he can cope to sit in a field in wales so his father can feel he has his legal entitlement.

Any advice helpful. Thanks

Nursery can be accommodated by offering holiday times for the long weekends, reception place will NOT be affected remotely btw. Why can't he do the May to Aug thing this year though as he won't be at nursery?

IANAL but I've been through court more than once and I feel that the first time you go you are likely not to end up with a useful CAO because you don't have a chance to think about the detail and the loopholes. That sounds like what has happened here. Your ex is effectively using the holiday allocation to change contact arrangements for every contact over a period of time, which I'm sure wasn't the intention of the court but then again is in line with what the order says.

If he was having Friday to Monday you have a right to request that nursery still happens for the sake of routine. I don't think it's true that attendance will have any impact on a place in reception so don't use that as an argument. I also don't quite believe costs would be awarded if it went to court but they would not be impressed in any case if it did go back to court.

But if he's asking for May - August and the school place isn't until September so why would that jeopardise the place?

Honestly I know it's hard but 7 x 4 day weekends out of 52 weekends a year doesn't seem unreasonable.

Hi. Thanks for your quick replies.

With nursery, I meant that holidays from September when he starts nursery school will have to be done in school holiday dates rather than term time which means our ability to take him away is limited.

With respect to the court order, they were quite clear that given ex was only really involved from 2 years old, staggered contact was crucial. He has him Saturday til Sunday every other day week at the moment. DS has never spent a night away from me. To adhere to the court order, he'd have to start spending four days away from me by next month, which is a hell of a jump and one I don't think is in his best interests.

You're definitely right, if we'd have time to reflect on the implications of this, Id have argued that 10 days holiday is more suitable. That would still mean five four day holidays which is still a lot. I would like my own holidays with him too which aren't court ordered

Is there a reason why you don't think his father is able to have him overnight? Is he less capable of looking after him than you are? TBH, it just sound like you're making it too much like hard work for his father to have any decent time with him.

Hi Soontobe.

I don't think his father is a safeguarding risk and I know he wants to spend more time with him genuinely. But DS is not yet three. His father has played a role in his life for less than a year. To go from one night every other week to four nights every other is a huge jump in this context. The court was clear in staggered increases in contact. The whole court order would be undermined if holiday was organised every other week for four nights over a period of three months. Plus, there needs to be a degree of consistency for him as he adapts to changes in his routine and gets to know his father as a father. Also how does a child potty train from a tent?

I do understand where you're coming from. Sounds like you'll need to go back to court if you want to get it changed.

Or you could just let your ex try and potty train out of a tent in Wales...I suspect the novelty would soon wear off!

I'd let him take me back to court to be honest. That's not what the spirit of the agreement is to build up contact, and I'd expect any judge to understand that.

Nursery attendence does not affect school places, that would be unlawful.

You potty train from a tent the same way you potty train at home!

Im with HollyBollyBoOBoo I don’t see what the problem is!! Why would you not want to let you DS and his father spend quality time together. You will still have loads of quality time over the summer with you ds. And to keep going to court is really not good for you, your ex or your child !!

Ok so what's the point of a court order that says staggered contact going from 1 day to 2 days in a period of 8 months if holiday allocation can just circumvent that?

So basically, you don't want him to do the four day thing after September when he starts nursery, which is understandable. He doesn't want to do October or Christmas holidays so in order to fit in all the holidays before September, it has to be done the way he's suggesting.

In all honesty, I think you just need to go with it. Try the first one and see how it goes. If your son is distressed then you can always revisit and say that it's not working out. But I don't think you should defy the court order without trying.

Then write back and suggest days you think will work better, bearing in mind the spirit of the order to increase contact over a period of time and the fact that missing school/nursery says is to the detriment of your child.

For example two normal weekends in May, then if they go ok two of the long ones in June, two in July, one in August, one beginning Sep and one in October half term (Thursday to Sunday so as not to miss nursery).

But don't use getting a reception place or potty training as reasons to avoid long weekends.

Can you provide the schedule of contact that the court ordered?

I ask because you state that contact is to be increased from 1 night to 2 nights, but that the holidays are no more than 4 nights consecutively. It would stand to reason that the contact has to increase to 2 nights before holiday is incorporated. You've either got a badly worded order or the court's intent was for holidays to start after the contact was increased to 2 nights.

Typing up the actual parts that relate to the schedule of contact will help to see whether you and the father are misinterpreting it...alternatively you could refer back to your previous solicitor and ask them to explain it. If you type information on here, redact any personal information.

I’m wondering what sort of job the father has that would permit a 4 day vacation every other weekend! Using vacation to extend every single contact over a period of months is unfair. Is it possible you’ve misunderstood the court order? I’m afraid I’d go back to court otherwise you’ll have this issue every summer.

I'm not sure the 14 days actually means only weekdays for your child; so that would only be 3x4 day stays plus 1x2 night stay.

I think let him have a couple of 4 day weekends and then if that is too inconvenient let him have a proper 7 day holiday. Kids are very resilient. He will be fine with his dad.

Nursery attendence does not affect school places, that would be unlawful

In general nursery attendance does not affect school places but it is not unlawful for a school to give priority in admissions to children attending a school-run nursery. The Admissions Code specifically allows schools to do this.