Widowed without a will. Help please!

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Hi my DH passed away without making a will. I would like to know what is included in his estate. Our home is owned outright in my husband's name, I have received a substantial benevolent fund payment from his place of work, I also receive a widow's pension and there is a life assurance policy which requires Letters of Administration in or order for them to pay out. What I need to know is which of the above should be included in my late husband estate. Thanking you in anticipation X.

What country are you in. The laws are different in Scotland from England. Does he have children?

Northern Ireland and two children, 18 & 12.

You should speak to a lawyer. It will depend on how much the estate is worth.

Sorry sent too soon. The children may be entitled to a share.

Slightly different situation but my nan died without a will. It was all left to next of kin, my mum, to deal with.

She informed life insurance, sent death cert and they paid out with that.

It also depends on what the whole estate is worth but as his wife I would assume everything would go to you without a will in place. Double check that though.

Thanks folks. Unfortunately, the life insurance people won't pay out on submission of death certificate, they want 'Letters of Administration's so I need to go through the law courts for that. For this reason I have appointed a solicitor and was actually trying to establish the cost involved for doing so. They are charging an hourly rate plus a percentage of the estate. That's why I want to establish if the pension and benevolent payment in particular, are classed as part of the estate X.

Hi
Phone the govt bereavement line. I found them very helpful.
Everything that was his passes to you as his wife. There is no inheritance tax to pay between husband and wife.
I'm a bit unsure about the house, we owned ours together and it automatically passed to me. It's classed as on the estate, but not under inheritance tax.
Insurance policies don't fall under his estate, because he didn't have that money when he was alive.
Pension payouts are slightly different too, there might be tax to pay depending on what type of policy and how old he was, and lifetime allowances. But not included in estate as he didn't have that money when he was alive.
It can seem very daunting which is why lots of people hand it over to a solicitor. But the forms aren't that bad when you break it down.

Just read your update. I wouldn't pay a solicitor to do this. I filled in the forms and had the probate document back within 3 weeks.
It's 2 forms to complete, a probate one and an iht one

The pension, life ins don't form part of the estate, it would be anything he actually owned, ie house, bank accounts, shares. Less any debts.

I think you need to check the law regarding the children. In Scotland children have rights to inherit a portion of the movable estate, regardless of any will. As one of the children is a minor, they may also have a claim on that basis. I don't know the law in Northern Ireland, so I think it is worth having a consultation with a solicitor to check the children's rights, just in case.

Hi OP, sorry for your loss.

As your DH passed away without making a will, his estate is administered under the intestacy laws. Have a look here - seems and bit different in N Ireland www.citizensinformation.ie/en/death/the_deceaseds_estate/what_happens_the_deceaseds_estate.html

It looks like as next of kin you can apply to be the administrator, and anything passed to under 18s put in trust.

HTH. Solicitors can really take a whack out of administering this sort of estate.

Please seek independent advice from an alternative solicitor - a solicitor should not be charging you a percentage of the estate any more than conveyancing charges being based on the price of a house sale.
You will be entitled to receive whatever the law allows and a good solicitor will guide you through all of the steps regardless of how much the estate amounts to.
I am sorry for your loss and wish you good luck in finding a decent solicitor to help you.

Yes, Be very careful re the solicitor. It already sounds like they are preparing to overcharge you.Usually it’s an hourly rate OR a percentage of the spectate, not both. Obviously if it’s a large estate it’s best for you to pay an hourly rate, and conversely. I’m a strong believer in the lay person being able to do a lot of probate work. The government probate line is very helpful.

Life insurance absolutely can be part of someone's estate if it is in their sole name - if the insurer is asking you for LOA then it is part of the estate

over50andfab - your link is misleading, it talks about Euros, so almost certainly applies to the ROI, not NI.

Op, I don’t know if NI rules are different to England, but applying for LOA is not that different to applying for probate where there is a will. You shouldn’t need a solicitor.

My niece died suddenly and intestate last year and although her estate was simpler (mainly cash in bank from an inheritance) my DB applied for LOA without any difficulty.

Have a look on the NI gov.uk probate site and download the forms you need for LOA.

www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/applying-probate

It should have guidance notes with it and I believe that the probate office helpline are very good too. Please don’t go down the solicitor route, it is unnnecessary and could lose a lot of money that way.

My understanding is that the widows pension isn’t included, nor is life insurance, as both are paying out to you, not to his estate.

I must say that I am surprised that the insurance policy needs LoA, my mum had a will and her insurance policies (taken out when she was a child in 1930s) paid out within days of her death. I am not sure that I even sent a death certificate!

I would suggest you also get your own will made ASAP, thinking about who would be executors, how old you would want your DC to be when they inherit and who would be guardians for youngest should you die in next 6 yrs.

I find it hard to undertand why people don’t do wills. We have done very basic ones for our 2 young adult DC, (who have same inheritance that my niece did) based on a free, basic template - leaving everything to each other, or cousins if we die together, with DH and I as executors.

I know that free templates aren’t suitable for most people, but even so a will makes everything much easier.

I have told my DB and wife to get them done, as, having lost their only child and with all SIL family in Asia, it would fall to me/my kids for him, not sure how SIL’s estate would be managed if he pre-deceases her.

I a not sure about NI but this might be correct:

"The amounts shown below are for Northern Ireland deaths on or after 1 January 2008.

If the deceased was married or in a civil partnership

If the deceased had an estate worth £250,000 or less, then everything goes to the husband, wife or civil partner.

If the deceased had an estate worth over £250,000, then the husband, wife or civil partner won't automatically get everything. They will receive:

personal items, such as household articles and cars, but nothing used for business purposes
£250,000 free of tax (£450,000 if there are no children) and the interest thereon
if one child, one-half share of any residue remaining, or if more than one child, one-third share of any residue remaining

The rest of the estate will be shared by the following:

children (or if none, grandchildren) will get an equal share
if there are no children or grandchildren, surviving parents will get a share
if there are no children, grandchildren or surviving parents, any brothers and sisters will get a share (or their children if they died while the deceased was still alive)
if the deceased has none of the above, the husband, wife or registered civil partner will get everything."

I would do it yourself and not pay a solicitor nor pay them by a share of the estate unless you really feel you want to do so. I did my father's estate in England and it was not difficult.

Many life policies and work pensions etc are held in trust for the spouse because the employee has filled in a form to make that so. If that is done then in England at least they then are not subject to inheritance tax and are automatically the property of the spouse and to that extent regarded as falling outside the estate - same as joint bank accounts and houses held in joint names as "joint tenants".