Child being taken into care over high conflict

[Noname17]

Can a child be taken into care if the parents just can't get along? There is high conflict between ex and I and there is a fear that DD is at risk of emotional abuse because of it and now it's being suggested that if we can't get along within the next six months then DD would have to be taken into care.
Thanks to anyone with helpful info/advice.

@MissMalice I totally get what you're saying, but the issue I have is that his requests had nothing to do with DD or not even work related. I think at this point I should just let it go, let him do as he pleases, it's just not worth the fight.

As I say, it’s impossible for anyone here to be able to help you without having seen or heard what CAFCASS and the judge have said.

Cafcass don't make applications for care proceedings so I'm not sure why they would be talking about foster care if the case isn't open to social work services!
They would need to refer it for assessment if they were concerned about child safety.

Have they very specifically said that you are the only one causing problems? Sometimes Cafcass or the court present things in such a way as they seem to be addressing all parties but really they are focusing on one.

If they feel there is a problem with your approach you should pay attention.

NotANotMan perhaps they have said something along the lines of the case needing to referred to social services if the parents continue with their conflict.

The OP says she and her ex have not actually spoken to each other for 6 months! This cannot be in the best interests of the child. There is clearly mistrust and suspicion that a more reasonable and responsible approach might overcome. The threat of care proceedings sounds like a warning shot and you would be very stupid to ignore it.

Can you not meet and actually talk about what arrangements might suit you both? If he goes to boxing, can DC visit at another time? Talk about it. Also get representation but you won’t “win” if you are being unreasonable and counsel will give you advice on this. The court will always put the child first. Not the warring parents.

Op if you have a CAO already In place then Cafcass and a judge will only be involved again if one of you takes it back to court for the CAO to be changed.

So if you haven't done that then he must have. Judges and Cafcass don't just get re-involved on a whim

Some fathers who have child access do not understand the idea that they might have to arrange childcare when they cannot or will not look after their child - of course they can ask the mother to do it but she can say no! These fathers would prefer to be in control to decide at very short notice that they will not be having their child after all and many enforce this control by not collecting the child at the agreed time. This is very disruptive for the mother's life and really not good for the children either. Many parents would like to have their children "as and when" but that is not really parenting! The suggestion that one parent has to be flexible to accommodate the others wish to be unreliable is unlikely to be supported in court.

Of course Cafcas will want to increase cooperation between parents but this seems a ridiculous way to encourage it.

Many parents arrange contact without speaking and it is hard to see how this could be detrimental to the children if the parents are civil.

Which would be relevant if the OP had indicated that they are civil. They aren’t.

@ruthieness thanks for summing it up. I don't know if not speaking to someone means that we're not civil. But we did communicate before until he threatened me with taking DD away from, trying to argue Infront of dd and also breaking the order. So I decided that if he can't behave then he'll need to text me instead so that I have a record of what is being said. The first cafcass worker agreed that it is best we don't talk. Now the second one is saying that I'm micro managing communication. And if I raise issues or concerns then I'm 'trying to prolong proceedings'. It seems to me that I need to shut up and go along with whatever ex feels like.

I think you perhaps need to reframe it as taking on board the advice of the professionals involved in your case.

Sorry I don't know what you mean when you say reframe it.

This isn’t about giving in to what your ex wants. This is about him winning or getting his own way.

This is about listening to and respecting the advice of the people who have the benefit of the full facts of your case - who have met you and met your child - and what they think is best. Something is very, very wrong if they are talking about considering foster care.

They are telling you - both of you - that you aren’t meeting your child’s needs. Something needs to change on both your parts.

I would strongly consider getting a lawyer. Have a look at the Bar Pro Bono Unit (not sure of their new name) if you don’t have the funds. Are you not eligible for legal aid? No DV history?

@Noname17

I don't have a solicitor

Why not? I think you need one
I would speak to a few and work out who is really going to work for you
If you can't afford one some places offer some legal advice for free, especially if you are eligible for legal aid

You need to get a solicitor. Things can do downhill very quickly and no one here can give you advise because no one knows the ins and outs. Maybe your attitude is awful, maybe his is. Maybe your ignoring his messages is a problem, maybe it's fair enough. But if everyone else is saying you're causing problems then there is a chance you are. But if he is actually causing more issues, then you need help to fight it all.

I'm really not following this.

OP - have you got a CAO?

If so, does it set clear rules on contact? If so, is it these rules that the dad is trying to change to his liking?

If it's yes to the above, then why are Caffcass and the Court still in contact?

Have you or the dad gone back to Court to get the Order changed?

Yes I've seen this a couple of times in very vicious divorces where the children have been temorarily taken into care but it has to be really bad.

I would find having my messages ignored incredibly frustrating and passive-aggressive. You might think them trivial but clearly he doesn’t.

@ChristmasFlary I asked the exact same question down thread.

I think the op may not be coming back

No I'm still here, reading the comments and taking on board useful advice/recommendations and thanks for the replies. My question has been answered and I realise the severity of the situation.

The reason for such limited contact between ex and I is because of threats and aggressive behaviour from ex and I was advised by the domestic violence unit to take such steps. The CAO has not been finalised, but cafcass has recommended that the court case to end and for the court to issue a family support order (forgot what the correct name is) but essentially to spend a few months with both ex and I to support us re communication and ex is also attending a dv course.

It's the devil and the deep blue sea.
On one hand you have a victim of domestic violence taking safety advice from experts, - such as keeping all communications as text or email. And then on the other hand you have the courts and cafcass reframing this as the victim being high conflict and hostile.
So in short a victim of domestic violence must compromise their safety and place themselves at risk of harm and abusive behaviour from their ex abuser or they can have the court and cafcass berate them and possibly take action against them and their children?
How is this in anyway appropriate??

I personally would not be flexible. He knows that he can have DD at X time, who does pick up and drop off, and not deviate.

I would also limit communication with him to genuine emergencies, and let anything else be managed by the court.

You have got a lot of years of contact between you, best to set strict boundaries now rather than be messed around for years.

@sistersofmercy101 I completely agree! I had a restraining order against my ex and Cafcass painted me in a bad light for not wanting to amend it to make contact arrangements easier! After years of emotional abuse and controlling behaviour I finally had protection for 18 months and somehow I was the perpetrator and my ex the victim all of a sudden. Contact was agreed eventually and I did reluctantly amend the order. My ex went on to emotionally and sexually abuse our child and now it’s back in court AGAIN! Cafcass need more training in emotional abuse, coercive behaviour and personality disorders and to start seeing who the real victims are!

It’s very easy to make assumptions when we don’t have the full details. It is neither wise nor helpful to encourage the OP to ignore what the court is saying.

@Noname17

Cafcass reported this in a section 7 report when myself and my ex were going through court.
It didn't happen. Not that it can't happen but it didn't happen to me.
They too accused me of micro-managing and not being flexible - under the same DV circumstances.
We had a Court order in place, which I continued to stick too and kept all communication via email - when we got back to court they then advised that he was to not speak to me directly for 6 months and the judge praised me for sticking to the court order for consistency for dd.

Could you go to a solicitor and get the half hour free - just to get a feel of what you need to do - I understand legal representation is a high cost, I didn't have any but I went to see a solicitor for the free half hour and also used the duty solicitor at the courts to help me fill in paperwork and file statements.